Download Chapters 2-4 - Lynn M. Burlbaw

Chapters 2-4 “What I want to know more about”
Afshan Rajkotwala:
As these theorists made their ideas available to the public, how did the public react?
In many cases, the theorists’ ideas were not welcome. Socrates was actually accused of
corrupting the youth of Athens and sentenced to death. He was given the option of
jumping off a cliff or drinking poisonous hemlock, which he did. As with the others,
some accepted their ideas, others did not. Hindsight is 20/20, so what seems great now,
wasn’t always the case then.
Shannon Burnett:
No questions. It is absolutely amazing to me to evaluate the educational system (its
history and the roots for current pedagogy), through these civilizations.
Kayla Braziel:
I am unclear on the relationship between the Romans and Greek people. I understand that
the Romans modeled much of their education after the Greeks but how was the
relationship between the Romans and Greeks? How did they think of one another?
The height of Greek civilization occurred before the Romans. By the time Rome was
founded in 756 BC, the Iliad was already about 250 years old. Since the two countries
are across the Adriatic and Mediterranean Seas from each other, they came in contact
through sea trade. Eventually, Roman civilization became stronger. The Romans made
fun of Greek engineering, speech, and appearance (Greek men often had beards, and
uncommon feature for Roman men until later in the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D.). They did,
however, respect Greek education, and Greek was taught to boys receiving formal
educations. A common misconception is that Romans stole Greek mythology, since so
many of the gods/goddesses are similar. In actuality, most polytheistic cultures have
gods that perform the same function. For example, they all have a god of the sky,
goddess of the home, love, etc… That is not stolen, just natural. The Romans did,
however, “borrow” some Greek gods, like Apollo and Hercules (Heracles in Greek), but
they recognized these as Greek and invited them to be part of the Roman culture.
Yi-Chun Liu:
I would like to know what the professors’ perspectives regarding three significant
sophists in Greece since there are pieces of information and are not quite integrated in the
book. Therefore, I am able to know their comparisons with respect to their educational
philosophies. Also, I am not sure during Greek and Roman cultures, what some
significant events took place in Chinese culture.
The following website gives a great look at simultaneous events in world history:
http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/History_n2/a.html
Ayana Allen:
I would like to know more about female contributions in Greek and Roman society. In
Chapter 3 all of the important thinkers were male. Is there any info on the female
intellectual and philosophical thought?
Unfortunately, there are not many public female contributions during this time.
Remember, though, the context. Women did not have a place outside the home 2-3
thousand years ago, and that was a commonly accepted notion. We will, however, be
learning about Sappho, a Greek poetess.
Susan Jennings:
These chapters were great!! I am really enjoying this. I really don't have any questions at
this time. Everything was explained in the chapters.
James Watkins:
What similarities and differences are there between Greek and Roman society and the
cultures of countries around the world? Are high school students taught Greek and
Roman history? What can we learn about ourselves as we study historical figures, like
Socrates, Plato, and Homer?
It is hard to say what the differences between Greco-Roman society and other societies
are. Do you mean at the same time in history? If so, many societies incorporated Greek
(Hellenistic) and Roman cultures, primarily due to the expansion the Greek empire, and
later, the larger Roman Empire. The Roman Empire expanded all the way up into
northern Europe and England, as well as into the Middle East, northern Africa, and
partially towards southwest Asia. Many other cultures not influenced by the Greeks and
Romans shared similarities, like polytheism and similar social systems, but ancient
societies in isolation developed their own customs (like Asian societies, for example).
Texas high-school students today are required to take World History. As I recall from
being a World History teacher, we spent about one chapter (about a week) on Greece, and
one on Rome. I’m not really sure you can learn about yourself when studying certain
historic figures because it all depends on what you view and value. I personally don’t
side with Plato, but rather with Aristotle, therefore learning about Plato just helps me to
vocalize what I don’t believe. It is however to study historic concepts, like Greek
democratic government, since these concepts affect our current society.
Jee-young Shin:
More learning about mentorship: Socrates was the teacher of Plato and Aristotle studied
with Plato. The dialogues, knowledge and inquiry of Socrates enhanced intellectual,
professional, and personal development of Plato. And so did Plato (to Aristotle). As we
know their influences were so powerful beyond their times. I’d like to know more about
the study in mentorship to develop my current mentor-mentee relationship to experience
more powerful and passionate interactions for true results.
Yes, while Socrates was Plato’s teacher, and Plato was Aristotle’s teacher, they weren’t
necessarily all mentors to each other. Plato leaned on Socrates but then formed his own
ideas, and Aristotle’s ideas were, in some ways, drastically different from Plato. As far
and a good mentor-mentee relationship goes, that depends on you and your
mentor/advisor. A good mentor is usually someone you can model and learn from, but
also someone who is going to steer you in the right direction. You may have a great
relationship with your mentor, but he or she might not be helping you academically, and
likewise, you may not get along personally with your mentor, but that person might have
your best academic interest at heart. Bottom line, a person that you can socialize with is
a mentor, but the person who is going to help you be successful and do the right thing is a
mentor.
Brandon Core:
My question may be one whose answer is common to many, but . . . Having not read
these pieces (or having done so too long ago to remember), what is the significance of
Homer's Iliad and Odyssey that makes these literary works a common part of our
American curriculum today?
The Iliad and Odyssey give us great insight into the values and beliefs of ancient Greeks.
As the book said, they show how the Greeks viewed the relationships between man and
man, man and god, and god and god. Unfortunately, they are disappearing from many
American schools, but they are still included as a means of incorporating the “classics”. I
believe Beowulf is considered the first written epic poem, but other than that, you have
the Iliad, which Homer composed around 1000 BCE but was then recorded in written
format around 8th Century BCE, meaning its effect has been lasting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliad
Ebrar Yetkiner:
In literature Socrates is sometimes referred to as being the founder of critical inquiry.
However, another view about this is that Socrates’ way of questioning was not a critical
inquiry because he was directing the learners to discover the outcome he wanted, the
truth he thought was the universal truth. I’d appreciate your ideas about this issue. I also
wonder why Aristotle needed to be introduced to Western intellectuals by Arab
philosophers. Why wasn’t he accepted by Western intellectuals during his life time?
Dr. Burlbaw will explain the first part of this question in class. As for Aristotle, I believe
the “Western intellectuals” refers to the time after the Fall of the Roman Empire. The
Fall of Rome occurred for a variety of reasons, not the least of which was invasion by
northern gothic tribes. As a consequence, much of Greek and Roman literature and
education was lost for a time. Latin and Greek were not spoken though out the former
empire, so the works of Aristotle and others were not taught. This is known as the
Middle Ages, or Dark Ages. This is also the time when the Arab countries gained in
influence and knowledge, and were able to preserve classical works. Thus, they helped
to reintroduce Aristotle and others to the West.
Shufen Huang:
Quintilian recommended that learning be appropriate to the learners’ ability and
readiness. He also contended that the good teacher motivate students by making learning
interesting and attractive rather than by resorting to corporal punishment. Personally, I
am not agreeing with using corporal punishment. In Taiwan, corporal punishment was a
common way to motivate students to study. I wonder if it is legal for teachers to use
corporal punishment in the U.S.A.
It is not too common today, but some school districts in the U.S. still allow corporal
punishment, some around here in Texas. The guardian of each child has to fill out a form
saying that the teacher may or may not punish the child corporally. If the parent says no,
the district can’t give corporal punishment. Even if the parent says yes, the punishment
certainly isn’t like taking a ruler to someone’s backside. Most school districts have done
away with corporal punishment however, and there are serious consequences for a
teacher who hits a student (although the students are often deserving at times :-)).
Jane Metty:
I am learning so much! I just want to continue to see the continuity and flow of these
historical events. So Yes, there is a new thirst to know, but no, I have no specific
questions at this time.
Tom Davis:
By moving from the oral tradition of a pre-literate culture to the literary tradition of a
literate culture, did this not make education elitist from its beginnings? Literacy was not
universal hence the population was severed into two groups, the literate and the illiterate,
one empowered, one not. Did the ancients accept this as a natural order? Is the idea of
universal education of recent origin?
Yes, in literate societies like ancient Greece and Rome, schooling was not a universal
truth. The idea of two groups, however, is too general. While the boys of wealthy
families were the ones who primarily received a formal education (remember schooling
vs. education), those who did not receive formal educations were not necessarily
illiterate. They may not have been composing great works of art, but they knew enough
to get by (reading and writing important details of daily life and business). Having an
education is not what empowered the wealthy class—it was just a side effect of money.
Money and social status, based on heredity, is what determined power. It wasn’t until
later in the Roman republic (1st century BCE) that Romans who were not of prominent
families gained favor in Rome, especially the Senate. Cicero was one of those men.
Ancient societies accepted this as natural, and yes, the concept of universal education is a
fairly recent idea.
I-Chun Kuo:
I thought they are very good for me to understand Greek and Roman Education.
Dixie Kelly:
I have no questions as things are beginning to make some sense.