Download Transcript of Lecture MIDPOINTS Presented by Steve Lee at the

Transcript of Lecture
MIDPOINTS
Presented by Steve Lee
at the Online College of Astrology
September 18, 1999
Copyright (c) 1999 Online College of Astrology.
All rights reserved.
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Ed> Hi, Deirdre
Ed> We are a little late getting all this set up
Deirdre> Hi Ed
Ed> Hi, Cheryl
Cheryl> Hi Ed!
Ed> Hi, Elizabeth and Beth
Ed> Hi, Kaye
kaye> hi
Beth> Hi
Elizabeth> Hi from Elizabeth to everyone
Ed> We're not started yet .. I was a little disorganized earlier.
Bryan> Where is the lecture?
Ed> Hi, Bryan ... the lecture is right here
Bryan> Thanks
Ed> The lecturer hasn't arrived yet ... although I may have
confused him a bit
Beth> In what way?
Ed> Hi, Deborah and Valarie
Ed> Well ... the room wasn't set up as early as it should have
been.
Valarie> Good evening everybody!
Beth> I take it you are the facilitator, Ed?
Ed> Yes, more or less, Beth. :-)
Valarie> <Val> What is this lecture on tonite?
Ed> Steve teaches Uranian astrology and midpoints. I'm not
really sure what specifically he's going to talk about, but
something in those areas.
Beth> Does any one have Solar Fire 4 and if so could you email me
on how to set up a Midpoint dial. I checked it out today and was
confused.
Valarie> <Val> The midpoints would be great--I'm studying
Ancient/horary astro and a lot of that is used. I'd like a fuller
understanding of it.
Ed> oops .. Ihave to do one more thing .. just a sec...
kaye> Dial Detective by MariaKay Simms is really a good way to
learn about mid points and how to do them
Beth> Thank you kaye
kaye> for interpretation I have no references
Valarie> <Valarie> Has the lecturer arrived?
kaye> no
Valarie> <Val> Is anyone else here a student of Horary?
Beth> kaye I thought Combination of Stellar Influences was
supposed to be for interpretations
kaye> Mars Pluto conjunction was sept 14 it really made for awful
weather
Deborah> I gather from an e-mail I just recieved, that Steve is
having trouble logging on. And to answer your requestion re
Hoary Astrology, no, I am not a student, by I am interested.
Ed> Ah ...t here, now I think everything is together
Marilynn> Val, have studied some horary
kaye> Beth you are correct and Mike Munkaseys midpoint book is
good
kaye> but Charles Emerson used another book that I have no idea
about the title
Ed> Hey, here's the man!
Val> <Val> Sorry, had to jump out a moment
Ed> Welcome, Steve!
Deborah> Hello Steve
Val> <Val> Welcome to our world!
Beth> I know very little about midpoints so this should be
interesting. I did your mini lesson. It was engaging. welcome
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Hello...... this is disappointing........
let me go back to my email list and give them more
details......this room will be hard for some to find.. please
wait.
Bruce> Welcome, Steve
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Is my name appearing ?
Ed> Steve ... there is a link at the home page now, all they need
to do is follow it here
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK with the link. Thanks.
Ed> And, yes, your name appears. It just doesn't appear to you
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK Ed, thanks re: the name.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Beth - glad that you found the mini lesson
worthwhile.
Elizabeth> I appreciate the name info too. Welcome Steve
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I do recoginze some of the names here - so
Hello!
Deborah> Hello
Eve> Hello Steve and group
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I will begin the lecture in a few
minutes....
Beth> I was happy to have the opportunity to find my Sun/Moon
midpoint before this lecture
Cheryl> Hi Steve!
Val> <Val> Steve, I've never done one of these before--you all
seem to be typing faster!
Ed> For those of you who might have missed it, Steve lectured
here earlier this year, and a transcript of that lecture is in
our Library.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Let me begin with a few intro notes, which I
may repeat for late-comers.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> In this lecture, we will discuss the basics
Uranian Astrology, without getting bogged down in the
complexities. This lecture is aimed at beginners. Nice and
simple, OK ? I will put forth some topics and ideas, and from
time to time I will invite questions or comments. If you ask a
question at another time, I may not answer it. Please realize
that doing a lecture like this takes time and concentration.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Toward the latter half of this lecture, I
will invite questions and comments beyond the beginner's level.
Now, I must apologize in advance, but I cannot stay for a long
time since I must drive down the North Island and pick up an
overseas visitor from Singapore. It is a 90 minute drive to
Wellington, and she will already be waiting for me nearly 2
hours. Now, you are all welcome to stay here in the lecture hall
and discuss Uranian astrology -we have some experienced Uranians
here!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Also, realise that we usually have people
joining our lecture late - so I may repeat some of the above
messages, so that they know the format.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> So, what I ask of all of you, is to just let
me put forth a few notes first....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ....and if you want to say hello to new
comers, that is OK, but I probably will not get involved....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...because I need to concentrate on the
content. OK ?
Laurie> Sure thing, Steve.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Right, let's go. I have a limited time
before I must drive to Wellington.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Just give me a bit of time ....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Hello everyone. It is a beautiful day down
here in New Zealand. The local time is just after 12 noon. It is
cloudy but warm - a nice Spring day. And it is good to be here
with so many of you. We are going to have an interesting, fun
time during this lecture.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> It is Sunday, by the way....and Dechen is
here - welcome! She is an excellent Uranian, and lives up the
North Island - about 11 hours from me.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Blake - great ! welcoome !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK, back to the content. Latecomers, please
read all the above notes now...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Many people believe that the use of
midpoints is something new. While it is true that with the
recent use of computers astrologers now can calculate midpoints
effortlessly, Alfred Witte brought midpoint use into the 20th
Century, back in the 1920's.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I will repeat a few notes from my previous
lecture to set the scene...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> However, midpoints were used way before
Witte. The mathematician/astrologer Guido Bonati used midpoints
around the year 1270. He successfully used them for military
invasions. Also, while Arab astrologers may not have used
midpoints as we know them, they of course used what we call
"Arabic Parts". The symmetry here is remarkable and closely
aligned with midpoints. For example, Fortuna or The Part of
Fortune has an axis of symmetry with the Sun, Moon, and the
Ascendent. If you were to see this on a chart, you could easily
see the midpoint structure.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Witte was a genius, and it has been said
that he introduced the first major advance in interpretational
techniques since Ptolemy !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Here is one instance of what Witte found.
He noticed that the combination of MC = Me/Ve was in the charts
of artists. What does this mean? Well, we read this as: " The
midpoint of Mercury and Venus is on the MC - Midheaven." You
will need to know this terminology, this format, during this
lecture.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> For those of you who read my other
introductory article to this lecture, and perhaps also have done
the "Mini Lesson", you will know that I have said that learning
midpoint astrology is easy. It is ! It is also precise and
accurate, giving you some wonderful insights. Is it easy to
become an expert in Uranian astrology? No, it is not any easier
than becoming an expert in any other field of astrology. It
takes time and experience to master any advanced level of
astrology. However, it really is not (contrary to what some
people believe) difficult to learn the basics.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Alfred Witte was an outstanding German
astrologer of the early 20th century and the founder of the
Hamburg School of Astrology who wrote over 40 articles as well as
the first "Rules for Planetary Pictures".
Steve Lee, Lecturer> By the way, Symmetrical Astrology is a term
that I have proposed to include both Cosmobiology and Uranian and
other similar forms.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> In the last 3 months I have travelled to
Australia, Auckland (NZ), Germany, Holland, the USA and Mexico...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...talking talking talking with many
astrologers about Symmetrical methods - mainly Uranian, but not
entirely...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...and what did I find???
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...well, stay tuned.... a bit later....OK?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> back to content...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Many of you will have heard of the 8
Transneptunian Planets. I prefer to call the POINTS, because to
me they appear to be energy points and not real planets. Does
this bother some of you? Don't let it bother you because I can
assure you that the TNPs work - that is, they give us some great
insights. The TNPs have been used by hundreds of astrologers for
over 50 years, with excellent results. And don't forget that
many astrologers also use points that are not 'real physical
planets' - for example: Fortuna, the Vertex, etc. And please do
not call the TNPs imaginary - they may be hypothetical planets or
energy points, but it is not correct to label them imaginary.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But we do not have to use TNPs to do Uranian
Astrology. This often surprises some astrologers. What I mean
is that Alfred Witte and others gave us different techniques that
stand on their own, without the need to use TNPs. When I was in
Hamburg Germany in July, I met with some excellent Uranian
astrologers, and they told me that sometimes they will not use
the TNPs - but of course usually the TNPs are used!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> What makes Uranian so different ?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Why does it appear so very DIFFERENT to
other forms of astrology?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Well, for a start, we use 360 and 90 charts
and dials...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...and for the most part, we do not use
houses...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...OK, this is a little controversial, the
house thing..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> but Witte and others like Lefeldt DID IN
FACT USE HOUSE SYSTEMS!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But this house system is not what
traditional astrology uses...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> It is fair to say that many Uranians do not
use house systems....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Oh, by the way, if I drop out of this
lecture, it is due to my local ISP...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> and I am not running away!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> so just wait and I will come back
LOL
:-))
Steve Lee, Lecturer> So, let me make a conclusion or an
overview...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Hey, this is difficult to do without
diagrams and charts !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But here goes...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> In Uranian astrology, it really is so much
simpler than most traditional methods...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...because we do not worry about the zodiac
and houses ... and..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> associated rulerships and exaltations etc
etc
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Uranians (in my opinion) look at the rest of
astrology and see a confused mess!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Well, OK, this may not be fair - I just put
this to shake some of you up....HA !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But the point is that Uranians generally see
their methods as being more accurate and scientific...
Deborah> Whose shook up -- I agree! :-o
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...but this does not mean that it only has
to do with non-metaphysical or non-psychological issues...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Uranian often gets a bad rap ...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ..,..some people believe it is too event
orientated....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> This is a point, somewhat valid.... but I
put it to all of you that our inner world IS AFFECTED BY OUR
OUTER WORLD..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> What happens to us on the outside affects us
on the inside, and vice-versa...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK, I will pause here and let anyone make a
comment.....especially our Uranian experts here !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Or questions..
Laurie> ?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK then , I will go on...
Laurie> ? --> This is me raising my hand. <g>
Steve Lee, Lecturer> From my previous lecture I had this...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Laurie, you have a Q ?
Laurie> Yes...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Go ahead..
Laurie> Could you talk a little about the house system that Witte
and Lefeldt used?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Ahhh ! Good question !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Boy, this is so hard to do with out
graphics, but I will try...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Latecomers....please read the above
:-))
especially the intro notes.
Ed> At some point we can probably arrange graphics, Steve. :-)
Deborah> Graphics would be appreciated.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK - the house system as per Witte and
Lefeldt is not used as exactly like Placidus, etc....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Dr. Heike Pott from Hamburg - a wonderful
woman who gave me over 2 days of her time...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Gave my email list members a graphic page of
all this.,,,, but let me ...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Hmmmnnn.... well,
for a start, we put the
pointer on such things as the Ascendant and then use the
associated house system...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> is this making sense ?
Laurie> Not yet. <g>
Marilynn> Like a derived house system?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Then, one has to use PAIRS of houses...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...not the usual 1 to 12 system.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But wait.... let me make things simpler...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> and a little controversial !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Look...... what I found in my 2 months of
travels is there is not ONE way to do Uranian astrology!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> IF IF we are purists, and accept Witte's
and Lefeldt's teachings...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> then we must use their house system.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But some Uranians - or maybe I should say
astrologers who use some Uranian techniques...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> just use Placidus or Koch or Meridian
houses- with good results !!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Egad - Dr. Pott would thump me now, but it
is true!
Laurie> ?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Dechen and Blake, can you help me here
please ?
Dechen> The beauty is it is so pin point accurate with timing of
events and events are an empirical measure of and influence.
Personally I think you miss heaps of information without the
house systems in fact witte had 5 house systems the most
important of which was the Meridian house system
Steve Lee, Lecturer> A note about far north latitudes....
Dechen> The meridian house system is associated with the soul of
the person so is the most personal
Steve Lee, Lecturer> CAUTION.... if a chart is of a high
latitude, say more than 55 or 60 degrees, all except Meridian
houses will be terribly distorted!
Dechen> The other systems (i think and am not an expert) are
equal house
Steve Lee, Lecturer> In general, I like to point out to
astrlogers that they should THINK about what house system they
use, and WHY.E
Laurie> Steve?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> sorry - typo - omit the E
Steve Lee, Lecturer> go ahead...
Laurie> If you have this graphic of Witte and Lefeldt's house
system...
Laurie> is there anyway you could get it onto one of your
websites?...
Laurie> It would be most interesting to see. ga
Laurie> (ga = go ahead)
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Yes, OK, I must put something on my web
site. Dechen can you remember if Heike has the graphics on her
site?
Dechen> no I dont remember
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Laurie, you can email me about this. Do you
have my address?
Marilynn> Steve, what of the pair of houses you mentioned? are
these polarities of houses (ie 2, 8)?
Laurie> No, what is your email address?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> No - not polarities....good question thanks !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> More like parallel houses....like ...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> egad - I need a diagram...
Marilynn> maybe like antiscia?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> imagine the pointer - do you use a dial
????
Steve Lee, Lecturer> YES - like antiscia - thank you !
Dechen> but the other sets of house systems the ascendant the
sun the moon ... whats the other are used to look at thate
Marilynn> ahhh!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Wow - time is flying on. I must pause
here...
Beth> What is antiscia?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> If you joined late, let me repeat this note:
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Now, I must apologize in advance, but I
cannot stay for a long time since I must drive down the North
Island and pick up an overseas visitor from Singapore. It is a
90 minute drive to Wellington, and she will already be waiting
for me nearly 2 hours. Now, you are all welcome to stay here in
the lecture hall and discuss Uranian astrology -we have some
experienced Uranians here!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But I will stay here for a little while
longer....
Dechen> for instance the ascendant indicates the type of
community that you associate with, the sun, the physical body,
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Let me conclude with a few notes, then I
will open it to questions and comments...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> please wait a bit....
Dechen> the moon the emotions women children
Steve Lee, Lecturer> thanks Dechen..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> One point I would like to include before I
leave, is about relationship astrology using Uranian
techniques...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> In relationship astrology, the compatiblity
of couples is often analyzed. Now, what would you say to a
client or a couple who had the following ?
His natal Venus
falls exactly on her Sun/Mars midpoint as well as on her
Jupiter/Ascendent midpoint. Also, her Mars activates his
Sun/Jupiter midpoint. Would you advise them to go ahead and get
married, or to forget it and "call it quits" ?? Well, these
combinations are VERY positive ! This data is from a real-life
couple living in Germany. They have been married for over 50
years and have always been devoted to one another.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> the above paragraph is from my previous
lecture...but to add...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> that once you know how to use DIALS...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...it is so so revealing, and fun...to do
relationship astrology...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> All one needs to do is to use a
bi-dial.,,....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> which means two concentric rings, with each
person's natal chart on each ring...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Hey everyone.... using dials and especially
the 90 degree dial...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> is part of Alfred Witte's GIFT TO US !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Now, this lecture is also a way to tell
everyone that OCA has classes on this !!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I will be teaching two classes...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> one on basic dial techniques,,,,
Steve Lee, Lecturer> and the other on Uranian astology.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> All info is on the OCA web site, so go have
a good look - you will find some interesting info!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Also, please go to my web site - there are
pages and pages - a huge amount of material..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...to keep you interested with all
Symmetrical items for hours !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> A note about Symmetry...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...this is the beauty of Uranian (and
Cosmobiology)...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...when you use dials and their charts, you
can see the wonderful symmetry unfold before your eyes!!!! Fun !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> right Dechen ?
Dechen> Steve I have found the charts you put up in preparation
for this lecture really interesting and informative about Uranian
astrology
Dechen> fascinating
starting with Muhammad Ali
Steve Lee, Lecturer> There is a link to Dechen's web site, from
my site (a link to my site is on the OCA site) and you will see
some good examples of Uranian methods.
Laurie> Steve?
Dechen> Have the others here looked at them?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Yes, and I think over 300 - maybe 400 people
have seen these intro charts !
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Let me conclude and open this to Qs and
comments...
Marilynn> Steve, how do Uranians work with timing such as
transits? most of the events seem to appear inherent in the natal
planetary trees, but when?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> There is A LOT of interest in Uranian
methods all over the world.... two examples...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> 1. Have a look at Albert Timashev's web
site in Russia. (the English page)....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> an excellent site... let's see if I have the
URL...
Steve Lee, Lecturer>
http://www.astrologer.ru/Witte/biography_eng.html
Steve Lee, Lecturer> 2. When I lectured in Monterrey Mexico last
month, there certainly was much interest in Uranian methods - the
astrologers there were quite excited by it all!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> And here is my site's URL...
Steve Lee, Lecturer>
http://members.tripod.com/~junojuno2/index2.htm
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Remember, this is a huge resource for all to
use....the largest such site on the Net....and Much more will be
added!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I suggest that you go to the links page and
surf over to the best Uranian sites featured....and print out the
material, including...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Albert's Russian site....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...and of course a lot of the intro material
on my site...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Your astrology will improve quickly when you
use these new methods!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK, must wind up. Our Singapore visitor has
just landed in Wellington.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Questions? Comments?
Dechen> You have made a fantastic contribution to astrology Steve
Laurie> Steve?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> You know something, Dechen ?
Dechen> yes??
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I am only able to do all of this because of
excellent astrologers like yourself....and I do mean this...
Beth> Laurie I love your questions :-D
Ed> Steve, thank you very much for taking the time to do this
lecture!
Laurie> Thanks Beth :-)
Ed> And a brief note for everyone ...
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...we are all so better connected due to the
Net!
Ed> The transcript of this lecture will be available in our
Library here at OCA in a day or two ...
Dechen> yes yes yes
Ed> if you missed something, or if you just want to read and
review it.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Blake, are you still here?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> well, maybe not, but...
Blake> Yes, I am here, but eating dinner at the same time...
hands are busy with food.
Sorry.
Laurie> Quick question, Steve?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I want to say that Blake has contributed so
much to Uranian astrology, mainly behind the scenes..
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Oh - you ARE here!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...and Blake's web site is excellent - can
you give us the URL?
Blake> Yes, I wanted to comment about the houses. I use them but
most Uranians don't seem to bother.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Almost forgot ...by future predictions..!!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> OK, I will let Blake comment on the houses,
but one last comment before I drive off...
Blake> My site is specialized, focused on developing
understanding of TNPs, much from a psychological perspective.
Dechen> The effort that is being put in at the moment is to
transform the interpretations from being negative and event
orientated to being psycholgical
Steve Lee, Lecturer> the future of Uranian / Symmetrical /
Cosmobiology... I do really believe that we are in the midst of
a revolution....
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Gone are the days when Uranian material was
so hard to find...
Blake> And just was ready to mention Heike Pott's name as she
entered the room... a Hamburg School astrologer experienced with
houses.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ...and gone are the days when it was hard to
learn, or to find anyone to talk to about Uranian!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> There are some exciting new ideas coming
forth. Example - Blake's new info on the TNPs...
heikepott> only I don't quite know whether these word will reach
you ?
Steve Lee, Lecturer> These innovative ideas will change the way
we look at astrology, and will...
Dechen> to assist the individual to look at their life and the
parameters they work within ... positive transformation
Steve Lee, Lecturer> bring forth a new era....
Ed> Words are reaching us loud and clear!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> ....some will stay as purists - and they are
to respected !
Blake> Well, the material was hard to find because there were
arguments over copyrights, reneging on publishing agreements, and
sometimes people who wanted to maintain exclusive access.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> But others will go on and develop new
methods, and some will incorporate Uranian methods into
traditional astology - this can lead to problems if you are not
careful and you must be experienced !
Blake> I also use the houses, but not according to any sort of
papal edict.
Dechen> hear hear
Steve Lee, Lecturer> To, end, I will say that over the last 3
months I have met with some incredible astrologers - so gifted,
so experienced, and so friendly....and many were sprititully
atuned.
heikepott> Heike> if I only knew what apappaapl edict is ?
Blake> Steve, you are right about combining methods, but many
Uranian methods, except perhaps the TNPs, existed historically
already.
Steve Lee, Lecturer> I'll have to say "Adios" now. Thanks for
staying and being patient. You can stay longer - Dechen and
Blake have a lot of knowledge to share!!
Steve Lee, Lecturer> Bye !
Ed> Steve, thank you again, it was great!
Dechen> a method dictated from a higher authority
Cheryl> Thanks, Steve!
Blake> Papal edict means a strict law sent out by one authority
that everyone must follow or be excommunicated.
Dechen> bye Steve
Beth> Laurie What was your question?
Ed> And as Steve said, y'all can hang around as long as you like.
Laurie> <g> I was going to ask about other significant
midpoints...
Dechen> go ahead
Laurie> In the mini-lesson Steve talked about looking for 8th
harmonic aspects to the Sun/Moon midpoint...
Laurie> from other planets in the chart...
Laurie> I checked, and I have none...
Laurie> I also looked for 8th harmonic aspects to my Asc/MC
midpoint...
Laurie> Nothing <g>...
Laurie> Perhaps this means I am a nonentity <gg>...
Dechen> I find that hard to believe
heikepott> Heike> good bye everyone, good night, pity but I have
to sleep, best wishes for all
Laurie> but the question I wanted to ask was...
Dechen> bye Heike
Laurie> if there are any other major midpoints that are key in
the personality...
Ed> Heike, good night, thanks for coming
Blake> Good night, Heike.
Laurie> aside from Sun/Moon and Asc/MC. ga
Laurie> Perhaps not. <gg>
Dechen> The Sun Moon
and the Ascendant Nidheaven midpoints I
find to be the major midpoints but one would need to look at the
chart concerned
Laurie> Perhaps I should check for Uranians aspects to those
midpoints...
Laurie> I didn't try that yet. <gg>
Laurie> TNPs, I mean.
Blake> Yes, you will find useful info if you check the TNP
aspects, Laurie.
Dechen> Whatever midpoint you look at the midpoint tree attached
to it must involve the personal points, sun moon ascendant
midheaven and node for it to be important in that individuals
life
Laurie> Ah, now that's good to know.
Beth> How do the asteroids come into play if at all?
Dechen> Many Uranian astrologers are ecclectic and use whatever
information is available and meaningful
Blake> The asteroids come into play just like the planets. Refer
to Emma Belle Donath's Asteroids in Midpoints.
Laurie> Does Donath also include Chiron in there?
Blake> Uranians are open to the idea of other planets, so some
use asteroids. Others feel they have enough information already.
Beth> Thank you Blake. Can you tell us what other books are out
there that may focus on interpretation?
Blake> Donath does not include Chiron. Martha Lang Wescott does,
though.
Laurie> Okay, thanks!
Dechen> I have for many years been interested in Chiron and
Atlantis because I see their important positions but one needs to
beware of information overload
Laurie> True.
Dechen> where there are so many points it is difficult to make
sense of anything
Blake> Martha Wescott's book Orders of Light is "dynamite" in the
positive sense. She brings the TNPs out of the World War
battlezone and into the turn of the 21st century.
Blake> Even if you don't want to use ANY asteroids or Chiron, you
can still use Martha's Orders of Light as a superb reference to
understand the nature of the TNPs.
Laurie> I'll add that one to my To Buy list!
Dechen> Also the work of Eileen Nauman on interpreation of the
transneptunians
Blake> And Ruth Brummund wrote a revised edition of the Rulebook
that included psychological keywords. I will be publishing the
English translation soon.
Deborah> Blake and Dechen, how would you suggest someone
relatively new to Uranian astrology, approach a dial -- with or
without TNPs? with or without Asteroids? Or stick only to natal
and directed aspects? You really can get overwhelmed with all of
the aforementioned in one chart!
Laurie> Excellent, Blake!
Blake> If you are getting accustomed to the dial and you are
interested only in Cosmobiology without TNPs, then of course you
can leave them out.
Dechen> available on line in the medicine garden
http://www.medicinegarden.com
Beth> I know this is a personal question but my mars squares my
sun/moon midpoint exactly. It's in Pisces in the 12th house
conjunct my Venus in Aries rising
Blake> But if you are interested in learning the dial AND TNPs,
by all means, you can put the TNPs in.... whatever "floats your
boat" as they say.
Laurie> Which is cjn Venus? Mars or Sun/Moon?
Beth> Venus
Deborah> Blake, I would rather stay away from houses and signs
altogether -- I guess you can say, that that floats my boat.
:-))
Laurie> Is Mars cjn Venus or Sun/Moon cjn Venus?
Deborah> I guess that would be Uranian w/TNPs, and Asteroids... ?
I think I will wait and see how badly I am overwhelmed, if at
all.
Blake> Another excellent oft-overlooked reference if you want
psychological interps for planets without TNPs is Planets in
Containment by Sandbach & Ballard.
Deborah> Thank you. I will see about finding a copy of Planets in
Containment.
Beth> Mars in pisces cjn Venus in Aries in the 12th house. Mars
is at 28 dgrees squaring my 29 degree sagittarius sun/Moon
midpoint
Blake> Well, you don't have to use the signs or houses if you
don't want to.
Laurie> Got it now, thx, Beth. :-)
Pete> Blake what is your URL ?
Deborah> I guess you can say, I tend to be more of a purist. I
was when I was studying Sidereal Astrology (Cyril Fagan)
Blake> Uranian techniques are so numerous and varied that you
should pick and choose the ones that work best with your natural
mindset.
Blake> Rarely are there Uranian Astrologers that use Everything
All the Time.
Deborah> Strangely enough, I have the feeling I may have found my
niche with Uranian Astrology, but it will take some time working
with the dials to find out if my gut level reaction is correct or
not.
Blake> There has been very little literature on houses available
in English up to this point, so they are not widely used yet.
This will change.
Beth> Laurie - It was fun chatting with you!
Laurie> Same here, Beth! You an OCA student?
Beth> Yes as of today
Laurie> Which class(es)?
Deborah> I hope there is more and more literature in the years to
come. It seems hard enough to find copies of books right now.
Lord knows I have spent enough time on the internet searching out
a copy of Language of Uranian Astrology.
Blake> And Language of Uranian Astrology has a thorough
explanation of the house systems according to papal edict.
Laurie> <g>
Laurie> Who wrote that book, Blake?
Deborah> I am hoping that someone somehow has the ability to find
a way to get the Lanugage of Uranian Astrology back into print.
Anyone up for it?
Beth> Astro 101. I am a long time student of astrology - self
taught with major gaps. I've been out of it for about 15 years
and getting back to it with Uranus on my Sun. I'm an Aquarian
Deborah> Jacobson write Language of Uranian Astrology.
Laurie> Thanks, Deborah.
Blake> I just started a new Uranian website for developing
understanding of the TNPs and new ideas in astrology.
www.sirius.com/~finblake/UranBeacon.htm
Dechen> I bought a copy last year through one of the secondhand
bookshops
Deborah> You are quite welcome, Laurie. Amazon.com seems to have
used copies that they can lay their hands on, if you are
interested. Well, at least they did, last time I checked.
Ed> Blake and Dechen, I want to thank you for carrying on this
discussion after Steve had to leave. It's fascinating, and I'm
glad we could get all the additional info.
Blake> I also got my first copy of "Language" second hand. Not
easy to find.
Dechen> which is really exciting to see new perspectives being
presented
Laurie> (Beth, check your chat window.)
Laurie> I'll check out Amazon.com, Deborah!
Dechen> email symmetrial astrology
someone may have a copy or
know of one
Deborah> Back to the question, are there problems getting
Language reprinted, or does anyone know? I won't ask if anyone
knows about the status of the copyright.
Blake> Steve has done a great job of getting Uranians to connect
and share.
Blake> Language was published by Uranian Publications in
Franksville Wisconsin (outside Chicago). A very small publishing
company.
Deborah> I wish we all could do this more often. I don't think
there are very many Uranian types here in Southern California -but I always could be wrong. I was shocked to find Steve's web
site. Steve's web site is what got me into working with Uranian
astrology.
Ed> Hello, CME and Judy
Blake> Yes, Uranians have come out of the woodwork thanks much to
Steve's efforts.
Dechen> ok back to the question about where to start
start with your chart and the people closest to you, plot the
planets and points you want to look at around the dial and
consider the meanings.
Deborah> Oh, thank you for the possible publisher to Language,
Blake. I will look it up in the U.S. Patent files, well what I
can find through their search engines. It couldn't hurt to find
out if it is in public domaine, which I doubt, but what the heck!
:-)
Dechen> When I started I couldnt get Uranian books but read
Hand's Planetary Symbols which brought a new understanding of
planetary interaction to me
Blake> Actually I know the owner of Uranian Publications, and he
told me he has lost contact with Roger Jacobson. I doubt it is
public domain.
Deborah> P.S. I work at a law firm and have worked in law for the
past 18+ years. I am not an attorney, but have a distinct warp
to the way I tend to think. :-) I call it brain burn!
Blake> I will try to keep my eye out for copies and forward it
for Steve to put it on the Symmetrical website.
Deborah> I have a cousin who has published several books (not on
astrology) and they are, I believe, good for copyright for up to
something like 75 years -- don't quote me on it.
Blake> Yes, Robert Hand' Planetary Symbols is a fantastic book
for learning how to use your own brain to put together the
components of midpoint configurations.
Ed> Copyright nowadays is the life of the author plus 75 years,
Deborah. (In most countries)
Deborah> I'm sorry that the publisher has lost contact with
Jacobson.
Dechen> not positive or negative but just pairs of planetary
energies in which one needed to consider the other influences on
the planetary tree when making a judgement
Blake> But of course Hand's book is for Cosmobiology... doesn't
include TNPs.
Blake> Yes, I agree with Dechen. The weakness of the old
Rulebook and Combination of Stellar Influences... Not enough
recognition that anything can be positive OR negative.
Dechen> Hand is a closet Uranian in fact when John and I asked
him what these symbols meant back in 84 he was so enthusiastic in
their explanations
Deborah> Copyright depends on the time in which the book was
originally published. Actually, as I was trying to set up a site
involving Sideral Astrology and the works of Cyril Fagan, I ran
into horrendous copyright problems, including those publications
from the 1940s-1950s which are potentially under public domaine
becuase the author was not informed of the fact that they had
additional time to their copyright which they could apply for.
They didn't apply, and subsequently, the copyrights went into
public domaine.
Blake> The book I mentioned by John Sandbach and Ron Ballard
presents negative vs positive for each planetary combination.
Dechen> do your own chart
look at the midpoints look at what
has been written and think how does this apply to me
Dechen> In fact the two transnetunians that give people the most
anxiety when looking at them in their chart are Hades and Admetos
which have had really bad press in the beginning
Deborah> Have any of you got specific books for delineation that
you use more than others... e.g., Language of Uranian Astrology?
Particularly when it comes to combining the influences in
midpoint trees?
Blake> Interesting info about Robert Hand and the TNPs. That say
s a lot as he is a highly competent and brilliant astrologer.
Dechen> but infact these are very exciting points
.......
yes Hand loves Uranian astrology
Dechen> Looking at the chart of Paul Simon that Steve has set up
as part of his mini lesson we see that he has Hades at 19 43
Aires and sun at 19 34 so we express this in Uranian language as
sun = hades
Blake> Admetos and especially Hades DO get bad press. And Hades
is in fact can be difficult to deal with as can Saturn or
Neptune... but there is a positive side.
Laurie> I'd love to hear positive meanings for Admetos and Hades.
<g>
Blake> For those who asked about houses, Heike Pott is highly
experienced with them and she has a website, maybe still in
German only... but later in English, maybe.
Dechen> He has Moon at 17 03 cancer with the Sun(Hades)/Moon
(midpoint) = venus and Midheaven (just a little off center)
Blake> Heike is at www.heikepott.de
Keep it on your favorite
list in case she develops some English pages.
Blake> On my Uranian Astrology Beacon website I am developing
observations on positive interps for Hades.
Dechen> and as Steve pointed out some of his greatest music was
about suffering
the Bridge over Troubled water Graceland etc
Laurie> Thanks, Blake, will stop by!
Blake> Also there is a negative side to Apollon and Cupido... All
things have "good" and "bad" in them.
Laurie> Yes.
Blake> And I have translated a lot of Lefeldt's interps of
planets (incl) TNPs in houses, but working on getting them
published.
Blake> The Lefeldt stuff was written in the 1950s so kind of
negative and fatalistic sometimes.
Deborah> Maybe I have an odd view, but I would assume an
astrological body, e.g., Saturn, would only have one basic
vibration or energy, neither positive or negative, and it is a
matter of how it is combined in the aspects of a chart, and/or
how the individual chooses to use that energy as to how it is
manifested. Or am I being a purist again?
Blake> Actually I am working on a book of interpretations for
TNPs in the houses... on the back burner.
Laurie> Sounds great. :-)
Deborah> Blake, I am interested. Let us know when the book comes
to the front burner. :-)
Dechen> Looking at that midpoint tree the Sun/moon also =
mercury/node, jupiter/chiron, kronos/vulcanus ascendant/saturn,
uranus
Blake> Deborah, I agree with you.... there is one basic energy
that manifests in ways that due to our personal and cultural
lenses tend to view as "positive" or "negative".
Laurie> Thanks for all the terrific information, Blake and
Dechen! Goodnight now!
Dechen> night
Ed> Laurie, thanks for coming! Nite!
Blake> Thanks for the stimulating info exchange. Ciao!
Deborah> Blake, it's good to know I am not alone in that view.
Many tropical astrolgers have chided me over my views -- not that
I pay a lot of attention to them!
Laurie> Nite Ed! Nite everyone!
Deborah> Thanks for the informative chat. Hope to see [?] you
all again soon.
Blake> OK, before I leave. Yes, the thing is I think that
polarizing the info into pos and neg helps objectify, though.
G'night!
Ed> Dechen and Blake, thanks again for all your work tonight!
Dechen> a pleasure Ed
Deborah> I will think that through, Blake. Night Bale, Dechen
and Ed. Thanks again.
Ed> Nite, everyone! See you, Deborah!