Survey
* Your assessment is very important for improving the workof artificial intelligence, which forms the content of this project
* Your assessment is very important for improving the workof artificial intelligence, which forms the content of this project
History of astronomy wikipedia , lookup
Chinese zodiac wikipedia , lookup
Tetrabiblos wikipedia , lookup
Maraka (Hindu astrology) wikipedia , lookup
Astrological age wikipedia , lookup
Planets in astrology wikipedia , lookup
House (astrology) wikipedia , lookup
1 Indian Astrology (A collection of astrological articles) By Sreenath 2 A few words Table of Contents These are some of the aritcles I wrote in yahoo groups such as ‘ancient_indian_astrolgy” and “vedic astrolgy” during the past 2 years. Since much effort went into creating them, at that time. I thought it would be beneficial for others as well if presented as a book. So I took them polished them a bit here and there, making them proper to be presented in a book, and here is the outcome. The subject matter of these articles ranges from general discussion about astrolgy to more technical issues that were always under contraversy. I have arranged these articles inyo three sections. * General articles Part - 1 1. Base of Astrolgy .................................................................. 2. Outline of Holistic subjects ................................................... 3. Arsha School of Astrology ................................................... 4. Jain School of Astrology ...................................................... 5. Yavana School of Astrology ................................................. 6. Tantric Astrology and Dattatreya Mahatantra ....................... Part - 2 * Articles about pure astrology 7. Origin of the word Jyotisha ................................................. * Technical articles that involves Mathametics as well 8. Astrology in Epic period ..................................................... Hope this division will help the readers in co-relating these disconnected articles in a helpful way. These articles cover some unique matrial that you may not find anywhere else, and so would be useful to every astrologer who want to master this subject. 9. Mooladharam .................................................................... 10. Moola Trikona ................................................................. 11. Sign and Houses are the same .......................................... 12. Divisions such as Trimsamsa ............................................. Most of these articles contains technical terms and astrological content and therefore would be of interest to astrologer only, but still there are many articles primarly in first section which would be of interest to everybody who would like to know more about astrology. 13. What is Drishti? ................................................................ Sreenath 16. Aries Lagna ...................................................................... 14. A Secret Exposed ............................................................ 15. Bhava nasa karo Jeeva? ................................................... 17. Tarus Lagna ..................................................................... 18. Vasya Signs ...................................................................... 19. How to predict with Navamsa ......................................... 20. Sakunas and Nimittas ....................................................... 3 21. Jhaya Jyotish ................................................................... Part -3 22. True Ayanamsa ................................................................ 23. Zero Ayanamsa Year ........................................................ 24. Kunda Birth Rectification Method .................................... 25. Birth Rectification by Example ......................................... Part -I Base of Astrology Vedic astrology is a subject originated in Vedas. It is a branch of knowledge, ancient as Vedas. Astrology is composed of 3 Skandhas (main branches), such as Sidhantha (Astronomy and Maths), Samhitha (Omens) and Hora (Horoscope-Horary and Muhoortha). Astrology was also called Kalavidhana Sastha (Ancient advice about Time and its divisions). To determine the nature of time (pastpresent and future), to find out how the flow of time impacts humans and other animals and plants, and their life containing pleasures and pains, is the aim of this branch of knowledge. It is the root purpose of Astrology. Time is the cause for everything that is good and bad (pleasure or pain) in life. Time is the cause of all movements. Even thought is a time bound (It is also a movement). Even thought cannot break away form the boundaries caused by time, your past present and experience. To predict the happenings (incidents) of life, we should study time. But we cannot see, touch, or hear time, but can know and comprehend it with our mind and analyze it. This is possible only because we can observe movements. It is by watching movements that the concept of time originates in our mind. The movements on Earth (The flying of birds, fall of withered leaves, the flowering of plants etc), the sunrise and sunset, the waxing and waning of moon, if you watch in detail (even the subtleties in cosmic movements) the movements of planets - every thing shows us the existence of time. Time is the cause of movements. It is the cause for the movement of Earth, Moon and Planets. It is the cause for life and death of plants, animals, and humans, it is the cause of all our worldly conditions - birth, marriage, accident, disease, death, wealth, poverty or what ever you name it. To know about the life incidents of humans (to predict one’s fu- 4 ture) we should study Time. We cannot study it directly. But there is a way out - Time is the cause for movements. So if we study the movements of cosmic bodies (Earth, Moon, Planets etc), we can know or understand or comprehend the rhythm of Time - its ebb and flow. If we are able to know the rhythm of Time (the flow of time felt by the human minds), we could predict the life incidents of humans (what he is, and what he would become - but don’t forget of course the prediction is probabilistic). Astrology originates from this basic rationale. So never think that it is irrational or irrelevant, don’t through mud on the truthfulness and sincerity of Rishis (saints) who created this branch of study. Try to understand the sincerity they had. By watching the clock we can determine time. But it is not the clock that controls time. When the birds cry we know that it is sunrise. Still it is not the birds that cause sunrise. Similarly the study of planetary movements helps us to predict the past-present-future events of life. But still it is not the planets that controls human destiny. Neither the sunlight that is reflected by the planets, nor the attractive force of planets that has little impact on earth, has much importance. It is a truth both the wise astrologer and the scientist know. Planets are just instruments that helps us in understanding the rhythm of time, the instrument that helps us in predicting the human destiny. It is the way planets are utilized in astrology. Every believer of Vedic astrology should understand this truth. Only when you understand this basic rationale of astrology, the unnecessary arguments and debates will stop. Try to see astrology in its true theoretical foundation. Why should we argue whether astrology is an art or science? Astrology is nothing but astrology. If somebody asks whether bat is bird or not, what would be the answer? It will only create an unending array of positive and negative arguments. If somebody asks whether history is science or not, without my intervention, you know that the result would be the same. Bat is bat, history is history and astrology is nothing but astrology, neither science nor an art. The fault is with our view. Why should we try to cast something into a particular mould, or to limit subjects into some colored boxes? Man wants to classify everything. But the truth would be always beyond all the classifications. It stays outside all the classification attempts. The fault lies fundamentally with the fragmented human brain that tries to classify every thing, which ultimately leads to erroneous knowledge. This fundamental error remains unsolved, and we are trying to limit subjects in to predefined boxes. It is the second mistake. Will these repeated errors lead us to correct knowledge and view? When I have written this much, I felt that the fundamental classification error of fragmented human brain should be clarified further. Let me explain. We divide time in many ways, such as hour-minutesecond, or as Nadi-Vinadi in Indian system, or as cristian-vikramakali-yuga era or using many other systems that could be used to divide time. Year-month-day divisions, let it be solar-sidereal-lunar, it is all the same. There are thousands of methods! All these classifications originated in human mind. But truly time is beyond all these classifications. Is it the hour-minute division or the nadi-vinadi division that is correct? You know that this question itself is stupid and irrelevant. Time is continuous.... All these classifications are created by the fragmented human brain to comprehend time. Our view is fragmented. It is like a fragmented mirror that shows the picture of the complete and continuous world in a fragmented way. Even though these classifications are necessary for humans to study and comprehend time, the continuous entity “Time” does not need or necessitates all these classification. All these classifications are there or not - the time will prevail. Existing always there - beyond... Yes, all the classifications are wrong. But human brain cannot live without them. That is why it is said that every branch of study is nothing but “attempts to comprehend the incomprehensible and complete world with fragmented classifications”. 5 In a fragmented mirror the reflected world would also be fragmented. It is the fundamental limitation of human brain or mind. That is why it is said, “the eternal truth is realized only in a mindless state”. The Vedic verse that says, “where the mind turns back with the unreachable words (etho vacha nivarthanthe aprapya manasa saha) that is truth” also points in this direction. Due to all this we cannot but accept the fundamental error of trying to comprehend the non-fragmented existence (world), with the fragmented mind. Can’t we at least avoid the second error, i.e. trying to limit astrology into some predefined boxes such as science or art? Can’t we avoid such arguments as whether astrology is art or science? Try to comprehend astrology in its true theoretical foundation. View science as science and art as art, don’t mix-up all. Like humanity is a quality of man neither limited by class-creed-color-religion-cast etc, astrology cannot be limited within the classifications such as science or art. When I see the efforts of people to classify astrology into predefined moulds such as science or art, I am just feeling compassionate, because even these classifications are unscientific and non-systematic. A relevant doubt is, how to classify all the subjects under human study. The thought process of human mind can be broadly classified into two - 1) Analytical 2) Wholistic. The astrologer refers to this duality using the words ooha-apoha, mathematician’s uses the words Differentiation -Integration, and others uses the technical term Analytical approach-Wholistic approach. What ever be the terms used they point to the fundamental difference in the thinking approach. These are two different thinking methods. Most of the braches of knowledge we have today is the product of one of these approaches. Science is the product of analytical approach. We used to say that science tries to study everything by dividing it into smaller and smaller parts. Science has its own method (based on analytical approach) called Scientific method. Data collection, concept formation, analysis, verification are part of it. A theory is the final output. These theo- ries may later herald as the true mirrors or knowledge (laws), or based on new data input refined or discarded. Thus science is a continuous search for truth. Starting from small laws that controls our daily life, unstopping it searches for a single law that comprehends everything and describes the whole world. Some theories that are refined further and further become stronger rationally and experimentally, and heralded as laws, that becomes the foundation of science and promotes further study. Physics, Chemistry, Botany, Zoology etc are all branches of science. Maths even though does not follow the scientific method, has a systematic foundation and is a product of analytical approach. “Fact to generalization” is the prime motto of analytical approach. But wholistic study method is an entirely different one. The wholistic approach also had given raise to many branches of knowledge. Let us start from the most common example - i.e. Psychology. Psychology says that all the mental diseases (which may have even physical symptoms) are caused by unhealthiness of mind. In other words Psychology finds its foundation in the concept called Mind. If we knew all about the processes in brain, nervous system, and the chemical reactions in brain and body this concept of mind will not be necessary. We feel the Mind because of the combined and coordinated function of all these. Even though we cannot find Mind by subdividing the body in to its minutest parts (i.e. by physical analysis) nobody will say that psychology is a useless subject. By using the classifications such as conscious -subconscious -unconscious, id-egosuperego (or the Indian classical division chitt-budhi-ahankara), we believe that psychology leads us towards truth. All the branches of knowledge that originates from wholistic method use one or more non-provable concepts as its foundation, which are accepted based on their usefulness. Psychology is no exception to that. The ancient Indians used the word Sasthra (ancient advice) to indicate such branches of study. Psychology that speaks about Mind, Ayurveda that speaks about Tridosha (Vatha, Pitha and Kapha), Homeopathy and Naturopath that speaks about Vital force, Astrology that speaks 6 about Planets and Signs (Rasis) all are the product of wholistic approach. In this sense subjects such as Psychology, Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Naturopathy, Astrology etc does not come under the broad classification called Science. Still we know that nobody will dare to say that Psychology, Ayurveda etc are useless. In the view of ancient people sasthras leads us to truth, they helps us to comprehend truth more clearly, they helps us to know truth that are useful for our existence. Astrology that depends on wholistic approach is no exception to this. In this study method called wholistic approach, firstly to cover all our ignorance about the details of something and to help the further study, some basic concepts are formulated. This hypothetical foundation becomes a springboard for further study. Here also psychology can be taken as a suitable example. When we know 100% about the processes and behavior of brain and body, when we understands which chemical reactions leads to each thought and emotion, when we could clearly state how and where memory is encoded (with its minutest details), when we attain the ability to control all these using chemical and physical mechanisms (machine driven or otherwise) we could discard the concept of mind and psychology. Till then psychology will exist, no matter how ever the scientists express their reaction to it. Similarly when we understands how the rhythm of time impacts the living organisms and their life incidents (100% i.e. to its minutest details) astrology will also be discarded. Till then whatever opposing arguments originate, this branch of knowledge will prevail. Even those who accept that Psychology Ayurveda Homeopathy etc are wholistic methods, tend to reject astrology. Why? They ask How can you say that astrology is based on a fundamental concept like Mind, Tridosha or Vital force used by other branches of wholistic approach? Can you consider Sun Moon and Planets as concepts? Signs (Rasis) such as Aries, Taurus are the divisions of sky - how can they be concepts? All who sincerely study the ancient Vedic astrology knows the answers to such questions. I will explain. Think that we collect the common characteristics or life incidents of children born, when the sun is in some particular sign. Instead of considering these characteristics as that of time, they are projected to sun. Sun is considered the significator of all such characteristics. Later when the sun in the same sign, if a child is born, we predict that, that child will have those predefined (pre-collected) characteristics. It is a sort of give and take policy. The technique of projecting the characteristics those are not of sun to sun, and later taking them back from sun. Here the sun becomes not the sun that we see with our naked eyes. Sun becomes a concept. This sun is the god Siva, father, gold, soul, courage, success, light, king, govt. service, light, forest, peak, hill... and so many other things. Sun is man, middle-aged, bald, and the significator of diseases due to heat. All these ideas are formed thus. Not only the Sun, Moon and the Planets becomes concepts in this way. What ever is called significators in astrology, they are all concepts (Hypothetical constructs to mould the truth). Yes, in astrology Planets, Houses and Signs are called significators. Therefore Signs, Houses and Planets are the basic concepts used in wholistic study method called astrology. Apart from this some other basic concepts that are used by Vedic culture such as Panchabootha (Earth-WaterFire-Air-Sky), Triguna (Sathwa-Rajas-Thamas) etc are also well utilized in astrology. Of the two approaches such as Analytical approach and Wholistic approach, Astrology and Ayurveda is closer to wholistic approach. As these two methods (Analytical and Wholistic) are fundamental to the thought process itself, why should they compete each other? Why should the branches of study that are part of wholistic approach try fruitlessly to become part of science (a product of analytical approach)? Even physics should resort to the use of concepts such as stress, strain, force, time etc. Ayurveda cannot stand away from the fact that the use of its methods should cure the patient. The world we see is composed of both facts and concepts (matter and mind). Because of all this, the analytical approach that takes facts as the starting point 7 and the wholistic approach that takes concepts at the starting point should ultimately meet and help each other to the ultimate fulfillment of human knowledge. They are like yin and yang, the opposing counter parts of one and the same thing. As both of them are the foundation of thought process itself - one defeating the other is impossible. Don’t think that even this classification such as Analytical and Wholistic is complete. Don’t ever think that you can bring all the subjects under the sun into this classification. As I told earlier, all the classifications are nothing but the creations of human mind. The truth would remain outside all classifications. In this case also it is true. (Just think of bringing subjects such as art and history into this classification. You will see what I mean!!) A Vedic astrologer should be ready to approach astrology with such realizations, because astrology is part of a wholistic approach to study the rhythm of time and make probabilistic predications. Hope I have succeeded in conveying the idea that I had. Outline of holistic subjects stand and everything beyond it. Brahman (of which space and time is just a part) is the reality and what we understand though the classifications and theorems is just the reflection. Mind can only reflect truth and can never comprehend it. The Sun and its reflectionon water should be entirely different in essence, though seems to be similar. Understanding this truth is the first step in utilizing the study methods (scientific or holistic) provided by the mind itself. So in reality we can not define Brahman (Since every definition has existence only within mind, and Brahman represents mind and things beyond it). Same is the case with Prakriti and Purusha. Even though we cannot define the eternal (Let it be Brahman, Purusha or Prakriti), it can have many practical definitions. For example in Astrology – Purusha = Kala Purusha (Energy + Time) Prakriti = Zodiac (3 Dimensional Space including sky and planets) In Vastu Sastra– Purusha = Vastu Purusha (Built space + Energy) We can structurally classify the subject matter dealt within any holistic subject (Such as astrology, Vastu sastra, Ayurveda etc) into the following 4 categories: 1) Philosophy 2) Concepts 3) Rules 4) Rituals. Let us understand this in a better way by taking astrology as an“example.“ Prakriti = Vastu (3 dimensional space including as land and environment) 1) Philosophy 2) Concepts The philosophy such as "Sarva vidyam Brahma vidya Pratishtam" (All“knowledge is based on Brahma vidya – the knowledge of the soul and“the eternal) is at the root of astrology. Everything is a small print“of the eternal. The microcosm and the macrocosm is in rhythmic“correlation. We cannot define the eternal Brahman or the duality it“has with in, popularly known as Prakriti (Matter) and Purusha (Energy + Time). Brahman represents the space-time continuum and anything“beyond it. It also includes everything the mind can under- (i) Concept of Universe (Zodiac) Any one can expand/explore this or similar philosophic content in astrology or in any other holistic subject. The holistic philosophic content is a thread that is common to all holistic subjects. The universe around us ( for the people living in earth) is spherical in shape. We can use the ecliptic to represent the circular horizontal plane in it and the celestial poles represents the other two directions up and below that sphere. But this spherical representation causes problems, since it is difficult to project the 8 directions correctly in it, and it is difficult to draw. Therefore in astrology the spherical circular 8 shape of the zodiac is represented as a square. Yes, as you know it is the Rasi chakra (The Zodiac), as popularly known to us, starting from the first point of Aries and Aswinyadi. (Reasons for fixing this point as the first“point and dividing the ecliptic into 30 deg and 13 deg 20 min divisions etc is the stuff for another discussion, involving lot of mathematics. Chandrahari has done it in an excellent way) use in prediction. (b) Rules that tells us about the 7-fold prediction system and the exceptions related to it. (c) Rules to be followed while predicting with Dasa and Gochara. Almost the whole of the astrology is nothing but this rules (which base themselves on the fundamental concepts) and there application. Other similar/fundamental concepts in astrology are : (ii) Kala Purusha (iii) Prakriti-Purusha (iv) Signs (v)Planets (vi) Houses (vii) Nakshatras (viii) Pancha Bhoota etc Rituals that is associated with implementation etc. For example-(i) Rituals (Actions) associated with Prasna such as determination of Arudha.(ii) Rituals associated with worshiping of the signs, planets etc.(iii) Remedial rituals associated with etc I invite others to go into the depths or give an introduction to such concepts in astrology for the benefit of all, for the benefit of beginners for understanding them as concepts. Here, in this discussion, the point I want to emphasis is that, many such concepts forms the foundation for any holistic subject. 3) Rules The Rules can be divided into two – Laws and Principles. Well tested, well founded, unchangeable rules with a mathematical precession is termed Laws. And the flexible and simple rules that are used to describe, modify, expand and apply the Laws can be termed principles. Laws are nothing but, well accepted principles. Let us understand them in the light of astrology. (i) Laws 5)Rituals In this short essay I have tried to categorize the content dealt with in any holistic subject taking astrology as an example. Yes, the categorization of subject matter into- Philosophy, Concepts, Rules, Rituals is important in any holistic subject. This fundamental classification should be considered, and any subject should be weighed against this, so as to ascertain whether it is holistic or not. If it is a holistic subject, then it will fit into this categorization and also will not obey the path of scientific method Any comments on this regard are welcome. I also request others to weigh other subjects such as Yoga, Vastu, Naturopathy, Psychology, Ayurveda etc as per these structural norms. Divisions Such as Trimsamsa Even though we have the concepts in its place, we need to know the laws to utilize those concepts. In astrology it starts with-(a) Rules to divide the zodiac into Signs and Nakshatras.(b) The 7-fold rule for calculating Yogas (which ultimately lead to prediction) (c) The rules for calculating Dasa and Gochara. Before some days somebody has asked the question “Why Trimsamsa lords are for 5-6-7-8 degrees while the name suggest that, one Trimsamsa should be equal to 1/30 th of a sign (i.e. 1 Degree)”. Let me try to answer this question. (ii) Principles Initially there were 2 systems in astrology for deriving predictions based on divisions. Let us understand them with some examples- (a) Rules that explain how the Signs, Houses, Nakshatras and Planets can be made 1) That gives importance to Rasi vargas, especially to 12 Rasi vargas (Dwadesa Rasi varga) 9 2) That gives importance to the lords of Rasis (signs) [This system was later came to be known as shadvarga, saptha varga etc] Let us study these 2 systems in detail. 1) Dwadesa Rasi varga ing Drekkana, Parasara states that Parivrithi treyam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth Which mathematically means Drekkana sputa = sputa x 3 Rasau to yo dwadesa bhaga samstha Swai Swai phalai samkulayanthi rasim Thus from Aris: - the first Drekkana will have the characteristics of Aris, while the second is a mixture of Aris and Taurus, and the third Drekkana will have the mixed characteristics of Aris and Gemini. For Taurus: - The first Drekkana will have the mixed characteristics of Taurus and Cancer, the second of Taurus and Leo, and the third of Taurus and Virgo. It goes on like this. Which means - signs have 12 vargas. The characteristics of each division (varga) of sign differ due to the inter-mixing of the qualities and characteristics of other signs. Now is it a generalized system, which could be used for all Rasi vargas? Yes, it is!! Because in Saravali (another classic text of astrology), we could see the statement - There should be a systematic method for the mixing of the characteristics of signs (Rasis) without which minute analysis is impossible. Thus came about the Dwadesa rasi varga system. “Sphugidhvaja Hora” (An old classic on astrology) states that - Now what is the systematic method for deriving Rasi vargas? While describing hora (2 fold division of rasi) “Parasara hora” states that Parivrithi dwayam thesham meshade kremaso bhaveth Which means - the hora division circles the zodiac 2 times, starting from the sign Aris. Legnadeenam liptha jgeya swa grihadi varga samgunitha Ashtadesasatha bhaktha lebdha syadeepsitho varga Which means - If you multiply the sputa of the Ascendant and the other planets with the varga number and then divide it with 1800 you can find out, in which sign the varga sputa will occur. Thus for 4th varga (Chathurdhamsa) = sputa x 4 Putting it mathematically, we get - 5th varga (Panchamamsa) = sputa x 5 Hora = Sputa x 2 6th varga (Shadamsa) = sputa x 6 i.e. if we multiply the longitude (planetary longitude or the nirayana longitude of any degree) by 2 we get the hora sputa. Thus first half of Aris would have the characteristics of Aris itself, while the second half will have the characteristics of both Aris and Taurus. For Taurus, the first half of it will have the characteristics of Taurus and Gemini, and the second will have the characteristics of Taurus and Cancer. It goes on like this. This system is true for all Rasi vargas. For example, while discuss- 7th varga (Sapthamsa) = sputa x 7 8th varga (Ashtamsa) = sputa x 8 9th varga (Navamsa) = sputa x 9 10th varga (Desamsa) = sputa x 10 11th varga (Ekadesamsa) = sputa x 11 12th varga (Dwadesamsa) = sputa x 12 There is only 12 Signs, and as you can intermix only these 12 10 Signs the important Rasi vargas are Dwadesa rasi vargas. But of course you can also mathematically derive other rasi vargas such as, Trimsamsa = sputa x 30 Shodasamsa = sputa x 60 etc If you are deriving the Dwadesa rasi vargas or the higher multiples, the lords of signs and the lords of these divisions are the same. If you are not sure, see Krishneeyam - about the load of varga, but also the method for predection while using such multiples. This statement is especially true for Dwadesa rasi vargas. So much about the first system of Divisions. Now let us discuss the other system of divisions - namely Shadvarga system. 2) Shadvargadhipa system Rather than giving importance to mixing of the characteristics of signs, this system gives importance to the lords of the signs. kuja bhrigu sasi revayo budha bhrigu bhaumangiro arkkaputhrascha mando gururithyadhipa raseenamamsakanam cha The names used are - Kshethra, Hora, Drekkana, Navamsa, Dwadesamsa, Trimsamsa. Which means - the palents Mars, Venus, Mercury, Moon, Sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupitor, Satern, Satern, Jupitor are the lords of Signs and Vargas, starting from Aries in order. May be it is this use of same names as used in Dwadesa rasi vargas later caused all the confusion. The interpolation of new slokas (and dropping of some old slokas) both in Parasara hora and Saravali should have added to the trouble. Both this texts as we get today are not in their purest form (There are many evidences to reach this conclusion - which are not relevant here). What ever be the connected reasons let us discuss this system. Is it not a clear statement to prove that all the vargas should be counted from Aris and that the lords of vargas are the lords of signs itself? But you should also remember that, if a clear method for mathematically asserting the exactness of birth time is not present, there is no point in using higher rasi vargas. Because if there is an error of 4 minutes in birth time Trimsamsa will change, and if there is an error of 2 minutes Shodasamsa will change. (Remember also the controversy - What exactly is the birth-time? How to rectify it mathematically if there is an error of say, more than 10 minutes?) Understand clearly that while considering the divisions of signs, Parasara, Kalyanavarma, Krishnacharya, Sphugidhvaja etc all emphesis the point that, for mixing the charecteristics of signs, the only method to be followed is Rasi vargas. The genral formula would be Varga = sputa x multiple If we follow this system, not only we can get a clear understanding Kshethradhipa: Lord of the sign Horadhipa: Lord of the 2-fold division. (For odd sign - for 1st half it is sun and for the 2nd half it is moon. For even sign - for 1st half it is moon and for the 2nd half it is sun.) Drekkanadhipa: Lord of the 3-fold division (For chara sign - lords of 1-5-9 signs in order. For sthira sign - lords of 5-9-1 signs in order. For ubhaya sign - lords of 9-1-5 signs in order) Navamsadhipa: Lord of the 9-fold division (Navamsa lords of Dwadesa varga) Dwadesamsadhipa: Lord of 12-fold division. (Dwadesamsa is counted from the sign of the sputa in which the sputa is posited) Trimsamsadhipa: Lords of some sets of degrees.(For odd sign - 5 11 Deg (Mars), 5 Deg (Saturn), 8 Deg (Jupiter), 7 Deg (Mercury), 5 Deg (Venus). For even sign - 5 Deg (Venus), 7 Deg (Mercury), 8 Deg (Jupiter), 5 Deg (Saturn), 5 Deg (Mars)) This Shadvargadhipa system, which gives importance to the lords of these divisions, rather than to the signs (Rasis), helps us in asserting the good/bad effects of the planets. How to predict using this system is well depicted in texts like Varaha hora. Why the name Trimsamsa? Now let us come back to the question ‘why the name Trimsamsa means 1/30th (i.e. 1 degree) of a sign while lords are counted for different sets of degrees?’ The reason for this might be that the older of the two systems is the Rasi varga system (especially Dwadesa rasi varga system), and the names used in it were latter adopted to the Shadvargadhipa system. [Note the fact that in the Shadvargadhipa system, Horadhipa, Dwadesamsadhipa and Trimsamsadhipa does not even use the rasi lords. Even for the other vargas in this system the rasi lords might have been selected, just for the sake of convenience. For example see the fact that if you multiply Drekkana sputa with 3 it does not fall in to the correct rasi, the lord of which you can select as the Drekkanadhipa. The same is true for Dwadesamsadhipa. Only in the case of Kshethradhipa and Navamsadhipa, the lords of Rasi varga and Shadvarga coincide. This system, which uses vargadhipa for prediction, does not even provide a method to derive the lords of higher varga divisions. It becomes clear that out of the 2 systems, it is the most unsystematic one. Therefore better go back to the clear Dwadesa rasi varga system and try to make use of it in the predictions and derivation of higher rasi vargas. I would like to hear what pvr and rath has to comment on it.] Another question that comes to mind is that why the meaning 1 Deg is dropped and the meaning (at least) 5 Deg is taken for Trimsamsa division? The only reason I could point to is that - by the time Shadvargadhipa system became popular the clear method for fixing the berth time should have been lost, and to minimize the error possibility instead of 1 Deg division 5 Deg (at least) divisions are taken. (So that allowable error in birth time leaps from 4 minutes to 20 minutes). If there is other possible explanations for the question on Trimsamsa put forward by the curious learners of astrology, let me know. Arsha School of Astrology India is a country with a great tradition. In every branch of knowledge it has its uniqueness. Agama (Tantric) and Nigama (Vedic) knowledge molded the foundation of everything. Before looking into these foundations, let us have a look at the astrological system that grew up from these very roots, and became the great river from which almost all the other streams drew energy. This vast knowledge base is the Arsha or Sanatana school of astrology of which great saints like Vasishta and Viswamitra (Kousika) and the others of Saptarshis were the gurus. It is the purest flow of original astological knowledge, which I cherish in my mind, and want to learn more about. It is the school of astrology from which most of current knowledge of astrology draws its power from. It is the school of astrology which all the other schools fully accepted but later modified. Was it from an effort to unite the Agama and Nigama systems of astrology that this school stemmed? Otherwise why Skanda (kartikeya /Muruka) of the Tantric system was considered the originator of this system when the text itself tries to emphasis the importance of Vedic (Nigama) knowledge as well? In the whole of Vedic literature or in the epics we can not see the Rasi chakra but only the Nakshatra chakra. In the whole of Vedic literature we can see only the Tropical solar and lunar months, but not the Sidereal Solar months like Mesha (Aries), Vrishabha (Taurus) etc. The Vedic (Nigama) system of as- 12 trology was fully based on Tropical Months and (fixed) Sidereal Nakshatra system. But the Tantric (Agama) system of astrology was fully based on (fixed) Sidereal Solar Months and (fixed) Sidereal Nakshatra system. The Tantrics used the fixed framework of Rasi + Nakshatra to study the sky. For them the point 120 deg away from fiducial star Moola (Mahakala, the path of pritr Yana) was very important since it represented the point where the 7 planet conjunction occurred (Meshadi). Ra-Si chakra was their symbolic Yogic body of Kalapurusha. The Kalatantra the Tantrics cherished was a result of a mix of Yogic experience and the Mahakala who himself is the universe - the rhythm of universe becoming one with that of human body. The Suras (Vedic followers) and Asuras (Tantrics) fought for long! Over theoretical issues, importance of Yaga and Yoga, Tropical and Sidereal Calendar systems, importance of Nakshatra and Rasi, No temples or Temples, Architecture methods that should be followed and many more. A merge of the two was the only possible outcome of this struggle, which eventually happened, even after the strong opposition from puritans. As far as astrology is concerned there emerged a uniting stream of thought, that merged the concepts of both (Agama and Nigama) and that was Arsha (Sanatana) School of astrology. It was an adaptation of Tantric knowledge by Vedic followers rather than the Tantric adopting the Vedic stream. In this struggle many great Tantric gurus and there concepts were left out – to mention some, Bhrigu, Agastya, Ravana, Nandi, Kaka Bhusunda and the like. But their knowledge too survived to an extend as we would see later when we try to have and understanding of Tantric stream of astrology. The true knowledge of astrology held by Vedic (Nigama) and Tantric (Agama) cultures is still there in mystery and demands a lot of study to eradicate the darkness surrounding them and the related literary history. But in this article my effort of not to de-mystify the astrological knowledge possessed by neither Vedic nor Tantric culture, but to reveal the efforts and knowledge base of the new stream emerged – that is Arsha (Sanatana) school of astrology. Let us try to have an idea about the texts and gurus of this school of astrological thought. Skanda Hora This text is also known as ‘Jyotishmati Upanishad’. In the end of every chapter of this text the words ‘Atharva kile jyothishmatyamupanishadi ithi’ is present. This indicates that this text was considered as an extension of Atharva Veda. Many slokas of this ancient text is quoted by many. The language of this text itself indicates that it is the oldest of Rishi Horas. It is said that Skanda advised the knowledge of astrology to Brahma. So it could be considered that it is a text written by Brahma as per the advice of Skanda Deva. This text is not available today except many slokas from it. We could find elaborate description of the Rasis in this text. Apart from this the subject dealt with are Prediction related to - Significance of SignsHouses-planets, Exaltation-Debilitation etc for planets, placement of planet in Rasis, placement of planets in Bhavas, conjunction of planets, Drishti and Drishti phala, Different Sign-House-Planet combination related Yogas, Raja Yogas, Introduction to Nabhasa Yogas, Special Yogas like Pravrijya Yogas, Adhana Lagna, Hora-DrekkanaNavamsa etc, Life span determination, Pinda Dasa calculation, Drekkana Swaroopa, Horoscope of women etc. That means almost the whole of popular astrology that we find in use today can be found in this age old text! The whole of astrology used today is nothing but an extension and interpretation of the concepts and ideas presented by Skanda Hora only! In Sounaka Hora it is said that after leaning this knowledge of astrology from Skanda, Brahma taught it to Daksha Prajapati alone but none else. That means the prime continuation of this tradition (school of astrology) is through Daksha here after. Brihat prajapatya This text is an elaborate explanation and interpretation of the sub- 13 jects dealt within Skanda Hora. As said by Sounaka Hora, Daksha is the direct disciple of Brahma who learned this knowledge from Skanda. Brihat prajapatya is a Vyakhya of Skanda Hora rather than an independent presentation of ideas. This text might had been very large and that is why the prefix ‘Brihat’ (Big). Leghu Prajapatya:- This is abbreviated version of Brihat Prajapatya. Both these texts are not available today except many slokas from them. Vasishta Hora This is a very reputed and authentic text of astrology based on Skanda Hora and Brihat prajapatya. In Sounaka hora it is said that, Vasishta hora contained 16000 slokas. Many slokas from this text is quoted by various authors. Vasishta had authored texts for all the 3 branches of astrology. They are Vasishta Sidhanta, Vasishta Hora and Vasishta Samhita. Mihria, Kaikulangara (Author of Hridya padha vyakhya of Brihat jataka - a well known kerala scholer), Balabhadra etc quotes Vasishta extensively. Vridha Vasishta: Another Rishi with the name Vridha Vasishta is also popular. He has authored 2 texts known as Vridha Vasishta Sidhanta and Vridha Vasishta Samhita. Of them Vridha Vasishta Sidhanta is available even today. Kousika Hora In Sounaka hora it is said that, Kousika (Viswamitra) created this text to compete the Vasishta Hora, based on Vasishta Hora erroneously thinking that it was a copy of Skanda Hora. This text contains 36000 slokas says Sounaka. This is the text where the logical and astronomical inconsistencies evolve first. Vasishta simply applied his logic to extend the concepts presented in Vasishta Hora, and didn’t know much about astronomy which caused the trouble. He is even speaking about the predictions that should be given to Mercury placed in the 4th house from Sun etc, which is an astronomical impossibility. It is said by Sounaka that, Vasishta later learned astronomy from Maya (the sishya of Surya, the originator of Surya Sidhanta) and regretted the errors he committed. Even though this discrepancy is there in this text, this is also a well reputed ancient astrological classic. Surya He is an acharya with astronomical par excellence, who taught Maya. He is regarded as one of the 18 great gurus of astrology. Maya collected the advice given by Surya and presented it in the form of ‘Surya Sidhanta’. It is the modified version of this text is what we find in ‘Pancha Sidhantika’ by Mihira. It is though Maya and some other rare references that we know about this guru. A text known as ‘Surya Hora’ or ‘Surya Jatakam’ or ‘Surya-Aruna samvada’ is also available in the name of this Rishi. It is in the form of a guru-sishya conversation between Surya and Aruna. Acharya Balabhadra quotes extensively from this text. Maya This is a great scholar well versed in many fields of knowledge such as – Astronomy, Mathematics, Architecture etc. It is he who wrote or modified ‘Surya Sidhanta’ and presented it to the world. Many texts like Mayamata (Architecture), Maya Hora etc are authored by this acharya. Both ‘Surya Sidhanta’ and ‘Mayamata’ are available today but not ‘Maya Hora’. Chandra Hari is deriving the concept of ‘True Ayanamsa’ and the mathematical foundation of Rasi-Nakshatra division based on this text (Surya Sidhanta) only. If this text was not available, it would have been an impossibility to judge the true mathematical foundations of Rasi chakra and the astronomical concepts and methods cherished by the ancient scholars and Rishis. It is erroneously considered by many that Maya is an astronomer of ‘Yavana Kula’ and the student of ‘Yavaneswara’. But as evident from classics, ‘Maya’ is a student of ‘Surya Kula’ and the student of the great guru ‘Surya Deva’. But still there is a possibility that he may have some 14 connection outside India, judged from the fact that he was called ‘Yavana’ by some. He was a follower of Asura (Tantric) tradition and not Vedic. Remember that he was well known as ‘Asura Silpi’ (Architect of Asuras) It may be this non-Vedic foundation of the knowledge cherished by Maya that might have caused the trouble, of misjudging him as ‘Yavana’ by later day scholers. Atri He is one of the 7 great gurus (Saptarshis) of astrology, from whom astrology descendent to the 18 gurus. The text written by Atri is known as Atri Hora. Texts in the names of other gurus like Mareechi, Chyavana etc are also mentioned here and there. Atri Hora is not available today. Atri is supposed to have written some Ayurvedic texts as well. Brihat Sounaka Hora This is a very good and large text, many slokas of which are available even today. The available slokas from this text helps us very much in rebuilding the literary history of ancient Indian astrology – especially of the Arsha (Sanatana) school of astrology. This is a text written as advised to Sounaka Rishi by Soma (Mo). Here one thing we should remember is that in that era no body called Arsha school or Sanatana school, like Hindu religion was never called by that name by Hindus. It is we who name this original school of astrology as Arsha or Sanatana school of astrology. Sounaka Hora: It is a summarized version of Brihat Sounaka Hora. Mandavya Hora Rishi Mandavaya who was a true devotee of Siva wrote this text. Many slokas of this text is quoted by Mihira and many others. This is a well reputed text of the original stream. Chyavana Hora Chyavana is a well reputed name both in Astrology and Ayurveda. Chyavana Rishi is the author of Chyavana Hora. Very few slokas from this text only is available today. Sukracharya (Brigu) Brigu is the well reputed acharya of astology. He is the author of ‘Brigu sutra’ and ‘Brigu Samhita’. ‘Brigu Sutra’ is a very good text with deals with ‘Planet-House’ combination and the related results to be predicted. ‘Brigu Samhita’ is not a samhita text at all! It is a book that deals with natal chart prediction based on the ‘Nadi System’ of Astrology’. It is also possible that the authors of both these works are different gurus of ‘Brigu Kula’. (judging from the difference in approch and techniques adopted by both texts) The language style of ‘Brigu Sutra’ indicates that it is a very old text. (Also not that it follows the ‘Sutra system’ rather than the normal poetic sloka system, which also indicates that this book is very ancient). Brigu (Sukracharya) is well known as Asura guru (Agama system). Brihaspati The authorship of the text ‘Brihaspati Hora’ is ascribed to Deva guru Brihaspati. It mentions subjects related to Muhoorta and Marriage compatibility elaborately. Even though mentioned by some the slokas that are said to be of this text available today seems to of later origin. Mention of ‘Brihaspati Sidhanta’ and ‘Brihaspati Samhita’ is also available in some texts. Brihaspati is well known as Deva guru (Nigama system). Badarayana Hora (Vyasa) This Badarayana does not seems to be the author of Mahabharata, but some later time scholar guru of Vyasa Kula. Many slokas form a text with the name Badarayana Hora is available. Hridyapadha and Many other texts quotes Badarayana extensively, which indicates that 15 he too was a reputed scholar though not to the stature of Rishis. Even the literary quality of his slokas does not have much in comparison with that of Rishi Horas. It would be good not to confuse this later time scholar of astrology with the Badarayana Vyasa who wrote Mahabharata. Soma Jatakam This might be a text of later origin, since we find no mention of it in ancient classics, but only by the time of Acharya Balabhadra of (10th century). This might be a text created following the style of Surya Jataka which is an ancient text. Suka Hora A text written by Suka Rishi. Many other texts like Suka Jatakam is also popular by his name. It could be possible that these texts are also of later origin. Satyacharya Hora Satyacharya is a well reputed acharya lived before the period of Mihira. He is considered almost equal to the Rishis in authenticity. Satyacharya Hora is extensively quoted and mentioned by Mihira. Mihira had a special repute for this acharya. Many slokas form Satyacharya Hora is available today, but not the original text. Geevasarma Hora Geevasarma is another acharya who was the contemporary of Satyacharya or one lived after him. Mihira quotes and mentions Geevasarma also in his works. He has developed many modifications and alterations to the original system which makes him stand apart from the general stream. Vishnu Gupta (Chanakya) He is the famous minister of emperor Chandra Gupta Mourya of Pataleeputra. Vishnu Gupata Hora is a well authentic text and well reputed by the ancient scholars. But except some slokas, this text is also not available today. Varaha Mihira He is the great acharya who caused the destruction of ancient Rishi Horas. The reasons are – • He created a very good and very small text named Brihat Jataka, containing 573 slokas, which briefed the contents of Rishi horas. Therefore the people with less memory and scholarship started learning this text instead of learning the original Rishi Horas, which were very big. • He mixed the teachings of Arsha school with that of Yavana school. He authored many texts such as – Pancha Sidhatika, Brihat Jataka, Brihat Samhita, Leghu Jataka, Brihat Yogayatra and many more. Bhattolpala Bhattolpala (Utpala Bhatta) wrote a very good commentaries for Brihat Jataka and Brihat Samhita quoting many Rishi horas, which enabled/ensured the survival of at least some of the Rishi Hora slokas.The vyakhyas Bhattolpala for Brihat Jataka and Brihat Samhita are available today. Acharya Balabhadra A great scholar of 10th century who wrote a text called ‘Hora Ratna’ which presented the contents of many Rishi Horas and the astrological classics before his period in a systematic manner. This text also enabled/ensured the survival of at least some of the Rishi Hora slokas. Kerala Astrology The astrological system followed in Kerala is an extension of Arsha or Sanatana school of astrology especially due to the efforts of the following acharyas. Krishnacharya:- He wrote a very good text named Krishneeyam. 16 This acharya might have lived in the 15th century AD, and was the contemporary of Madhavacharya who wrote Madhaveeya. sure house of ancient astrological knowledge, I am satisfied. I hope this effort was not futile. Vishnu:- He is the son of Madhavacharya, who wrote an elaborate and very good commentary for Krishneeyam with the name ‘Chatura Sundari’ in Sanskrit. This commentary became very popular, and is appreciated very much by the Kerala astrologers, and is in line with the interpretation system of Rishi horas. Jain School of Astrology Talakkulattu Govinda Bhattatiri:- He wrote a very good commentary for the first 10 chapters of Varaha Hora (Brihat Jatakam) with the name ‘Dasasdhyayi’ in Sanskrit. This commentary became very popular, and is appreciated very much by the Kerala astrologers, and is in line with the interpretation system of Rishi horas. Kaikulangara Ramavaryar :- He wrote a very good commentary for Varaha Hora (Brihat Jatakam) with the name ‘Hridyapadha’ in Malayalam, quoting hundreds of Rishi hora slokas. In Kerala ‘Hridyapadha’ has become another name for ‘Varaha Hora’. It is well appreciated by Kerala astrologers. This text also enabled/ensured the survival of at least some of the Rishi Hora slokas. I have listed the names of some Rishis and acharyas of Arsha school of astrology and tried to emphasis why Kerala astrology could be considered as an extension of this school of astrology. This list is not at all complete. The lot many scholars who collected and presented the slokas to us from the texts available to them (but not available today – the lost treasures) from all schools of astrological thought also helped in the survival of this school of astrology at least to this extend. Collecting and classifying the knowledge imparted by these different schools of astrology separately and uniting them to one single stream, identifying the opinion differences clearly are the need of the moment. I hope such studies and classifying efforts could be of great help in this regard. If I am able to depict, even a glimpse of the size of this vast trea- Rishabha Deva of Vedic period is thought to be first teerthankara (enlightened guru) and originator of Jain stream of spiritual thought. It was traditionally believed that there were 24 teerthankaras (enlightened gurus), and the 23rd Parswanadha and the 24th Vadhamana Mahaveera. In the ancient past the teachings of enlightened masters like Rishabha Deva were also considered to be part of Veda-Vedanga teachings itself, but later gradually it became a separate stream. The Jain stream of spiritual thought form the clear shape of a religion by the period of Mahaveera, and therefore he is thought to be the originator of Jain religion. We have nothing to do with these enlightened masters of spirituality, but are more interested in the astrology they cherished. Garga The first guru in the Jain school of astrology is thought to be Brahma. In Garga hora it is said that, Garga Rishi got this knowledge from Brahma. I will quote the sloka for youSwayam swayambhuva srishtam chakshurbhootam dwijanmanam Vedangam jyotisham brahmaparam yejncha hitavaham Maya swayambhuvaH praptam triyakala prasadhanam Devanamuttam sastram trilokya hitakarakam Mattaschanyanrisheen praptam paramparyena pushkalam Tistada srishtibir booyo grandhaiH swaiH swirudahritam (Garga hora) [(Garga Rishi tells) This system of knowledge is created by lord Brahma, and became visible to the people who took second birth with true knowledge. This system of astrology is part of Vedic knowledge, and helps to become enlightened, and is useful in Yaga (for determination of Yaga timings etc). I got this system of knowledge 17 from lord Brahma. (In other Rishi horas it is told that, Skanda taught astrology to Brahma, and that the text written by lord Brahma is known as Skanda Hora) The knowledge of astrology is appreciated even by devas (heavenly beings) and is useful in all 3 worlds (past- presentfuture). The other Rishis learned this knowledge from me, and thus the tradition flourished. They have also created astrological texts of their own] This essentially means that by the time of Garga many astrological texts existed, probably closely related to Rishi names. The Rishi kulas were like universities, were every enlightened new master would be known by the name of the originator of the kula. It is similar to the Sankaracharya tradition of today where every new person coming in charge would be termed Sankaracharya. Similar was the case with all Rishi kulas like, Garga, Vasishta, Kousika, Atri, Chyevana, Agastya, Parasara etc. The head guru was like the chancellor of the university, and his designation was the name of the originator of the Kula. We should remember this fact while learning the knowledge taught by Rishi Paramparas. Otherwise we may confuse many individuals who held the same designation as one and the same person. (For e.g. Parasara Kula was another such tradition) Garga wrote books on all the 3 branches of astrology, namely, Sidhanta, Samhita and Hora. That means the 3 popular texts written by Rishi Garga are – Garga Sidhanta, Garga Hora and Garga Samhita. Many slokas from Garga hora and Garga Samhita is available but not anything from Garga Sidhanta. In Hridyapadha, Brihat Samhita etc we could see many quotes form Garga Hora and Garga Samhita. There are many more ancient texts that quote from these age old texts by Garga Rishi. All the texts written by Garga Rishi are in Sanskrit language. Garga Samhita is said to be available even today in some manuscript libraries. The language of this text (Garga Samhita) is a mix of Prakrit and Sanskrit. Astrology texts not only by Garga, but Gargi and Gargya are also available. These names either indicate other acharyas of Garga Kula, or the son of Garaga, and the son’s son of Garga. Many texts which ascribe their authorship to Garga, Gargi and Gargya are available (e.g. Garga Jataka) – but it seems that we can not be sure about the authenticity of these texts. Garga Rishi was also known as ‘Jainarshi’ (Jain Rishi), indicating that he followed Jain religion. A sloka quoted in the text ‘Bharateeya Jyotish’ (by Nemichandra Sastri) supports it. Vridha Garga This is another famous scholar of Garga Kula. Two texts are known by his name – Vridha Garga Sidhanta and Vridha Garga Samhita. Of these Vridha Garga Sidhanta is available even today, but only some slokas of Vridha Garga Samhita is available. Like all the Rishis of Garga Kula he was also a reputed Jain Rishi. Rishiputra Rishiputra is the son of Garga Rishi. He too wrote texts on all three branches of astrology, such as Sidhanta, Hora and Samhita. He was well versed in Sanskrit and Prakrit. From Prakrit only Sanskrit originated. Prakrit was the common mans use of Sanskrit, but later it became a separate language, and due to continuous use it deviated very much from the organized, systematic, and clearly grammatical use of Sanskrit. This deviation from Sanskrit was evident even from the period of Rishiputra. Almost all the teachings of Jain gurus are in the common mans language, i.e. Prakrit. Rishiputra is also no exception to this, even though he wrote some book in Sanskrit as well. Rishi putra was never known as Garga which might mean that he deviated from the original stream of astrological knowledge taught by Garga Rishi or it could also be that he never held the position of head guru of Garga kula. Mihira in Brihat Samhita quotes extensively form the Samhita by Rishiputra. A text called ‘Madana Ratna’mentions ‘Rishiputra Samhita’, 18 which proves the existence of Rishiputra Samhita. Rishiputra Samhita is a text written in Sanskrit. Rishiputra is thought to be the originator of the study of Omens (Nimitta). A text on Nimitta Sastra (Ancient advice on Omens) in his name is also available. Brihat Samhita quotes Rishiputra extensively. The ancient and famous Jain sidhantic texts on astrology Surya Prajchapti and Chandra Prajchapti are also thought to be the works of this great astrologer. These texts are in Prakrit. (Prakrit language is considered divine by the followers of Jain religion, since most of the teachings of Mahaveera and other gurus of this religion is in Prakrit). There is another trend that should be kept in mind while studying Jain school of astrology. Prakrit was the revered language of Jain religion and the common man’s language at that time. So the astrologers of Jain school of astrology almost invariably resorted to Prakrit while writing texts. But the side effect of this is that, almost all the texts written in Prakrit was later considered to be part of Jain school of astrology, which is a wrong interpretation. (I too can not escape from this pit fall, while trying to locate the teachers and texts of Jain school of astrology. Please keep it in mind) He is well known among the gurus of Jain school of astrology. He was the son of King ‘Vayara singh’ who was the king of ‘Dharavas’ city. His mothers name was Surasundari and sister’s name ‘Saraswti’. He was the student of Jain Muni ‘Gunakar’ who wrote ‘Brihat Katha’. Kalakacharya was also known as ‘Kalaka Suri’, meaning the knowledgeable person with the name ‘Kalaka’. Kalkacharya is first guru of Jain school of astrology who mixed this ancient knowledge with the systems of Yavana, and thus originated the system of astrology known as ‘Ramala vidya’ or ‘Ramala Jyotish’. The Ramala system of astrology originated from the mix of Pharsi (Parsi) and Indian system of astrology. (So the word Yavana means Pharsi or Persian in this context). This also gives some indications about the period of Kalakacharya. Kalakacharya has written a Samhita text as well. [The text known as ‘Ramala vidya’ written by ‘Bhojsagar Gani’ mentions the name of Kalakacharya as the originator of this system] His period was before, Varaha Mihira. Mihira mentions ‘Kalakacharya Samhita’ in Brihat Samhita. Jyotish Karnadak This acharya lived after the period of Brahmagupta, the famous astronomer. He wrote 2 texts with the names – Jyotish Patala and Ganita Sarasamgrah. He was also the follower of Jain system. But the texts are in Sanskrit. Both these texts deal with astronomy. Karnataka, the southern state of India, seems to have developed some strong relation with the Jain school of astrology in later years. Sridharacharya who wrote the texts like Ganitasar, Jyothirjchana Kalanidhi, Jatak Tilak etc and many more reputed later astrologers of this stream were the natives of Karnataka. Bhattavesari (also known as Damanandi acharya) who wrote the text Aya jchana tilak in Prakrit was a follower of Digambara Jain religion, and is thought to be a native of Karnataka. In this text he mentions an ancient acharya of astrology called ‘Sugreeva Rishi’ as the originator of Prasna system giving importance to 8 directions (Dwajadi Yoni). He calls it ‘Aya’ and that is This is an ancient text of Jain school of astrology. We don’t know who wrote this book. It is in Prakrit. In this text, we encounter slokas which considers ‘Nakshatras like Swati and Aswini as lagna of equinox’. Does it give any indication about the period of this text? Learned one’s can think about it. This ancient Jain astrological texts mentions Rishiputra as guru, and thus it is part of the Jain school of astrology. Anga vidya It is ancient text about predictions related to the touching of various body parts by the qurent. This is a text on omens (Nimitta). It speaks elaborately about the body language of the qurent. It is a very large text containing 60 chapters and is in Prakrit. Kalakacharya Mahaveeracharya 19 why the name ‘Aya Jchana Tilak’ (the texts which tells about the use of Aya in prediction).. Other Jain astrologers Durga dev who wrote astrological texts like Ardha Kand and Rishta Samuchaya, Mallishena who wrote ‘Aya sadbhava’, Ballala sena who wrote the Samhita text called ‘Adbhuta sagar’ etc are the followers of Jain school of astrology. Actually this list is very long and you can have a list of it from the text ‘Bharateeya Joytish’ by ‘Nemichandra Sastri’. The text ‘Adbhuta Sagar’ demands special mention, because this text is a collection of slokas by great ancient acharyas such as, Garga, Vridha Garga, Mihira, Parasara, Devala, Vasanta raja, Kasyapa, Yevaneswara, Mayoora chitra, Rishiputra, Brahma gupta, Maha balabhadra, Poulisa, Surya (Surya sidhanta), Vishnu Chandra and the like. It contains more than 4000 slokas. Existence of texts like this also means that the whole astrological knowledge taught by the Rishis is not yet totally lost, and if someone is willing to selectively collect Rishi slokas from such texts, and present it before all in a systematic manner, the original stream of ancient Indian astrology can be restored. One thing I should mention here is that, there were many astrologers who followed the Jain religion. But it may not be necessary that all of them were the followers of Jain school of astrology. This truth also should be kept in mind while trying to study the astrological system of thought taught by the Jain school of astrology. The ancient language Prakrit is a vast store house of ancient astrological knowledge and ancient Rishi hora slokas. It is another treasure house where too we should concentrate our search upon. Ref: 1) Bharateeya Jyotish – by Nemichandra Sastri 2) Bharateeya Jyotisha Sastretihas – by Acharya Lokamani Dahal This article is very long by now itself and therefore I conclude. Hope this might have stirred your interest in Jain school of astrology, and would provide clues and guidance for further study. Yavana School of Astrology There is a controversy about the meaning of the word Yavana. Modern historians almost always erroneously take ‘Yavana’ to mean ‘Greek’. Of course Greeks where called Yavana by Indians for a long time, and so it is not completely wrong to take ‘Yavana’ to mean ‘Greek’ if one is talking about the a limited historic period, i.e. Period after the invasion of Alexander. But when we look at the literature, we see that the word Yavana is used to indicate Pharsi or Persian in several instances. The popular definition of this word, supported by classics is that, any person who is not a native of India and does follow our custom and tradition is called Yavana. So the point to be kept in mind is that• The ‘Yavana’ has some link outside India • Their tradition and system is slightly different than ours. • The heir (sons and daughters) and successors of a ‘Yavana’ (Guru-sishya paramapara) would be termed ‘Yavana’. The 3rd point is often ignored by even the learned. It essentially means that at times even people who were and born and lived in India, and even followed the Indian custom and tradition where termed ‘Yavana’ only because, they were the descendents of Yavana. Before the arrival of Greeks it was Persian peoples who were known by the word ‘Yavana’, and even before that? Yes, at that time it could mean even people from ‘Afghanistan’, ‘China’, or ‘Egypt’, i.e. any where outside India or their descendants or followers (students). Yavaneswara Someone in ancient past brought some new knowledge of astrology to India. It was even before the period of Parasara (1400 BC), and this great scholar gets mentioned by Parasara, Narada, Kasyapa and many more. He must have been an astonishing store house of knowledge, and well versed in Sanskrit, even the Rishis considered him as an Rishi. 20 His great knowledge, made Rishi Garga speak outMlescha hi yavanasteshu samyak sastramidam stitam Rishivattepi pujyante kim puna daiva vad dwija Meaning, even though a person outside from, by native place or tradition followed, the knowledge of astrology is well settled and find comfort in ‘Yavana’ (Yavana Kula). Because of this they are worshiped like Rishis. Then why not if a person who took second birth by devoting himself to knowledge and is learning astrology? We should remember that Garga was the head guru (like chancellor of a university) of the Garga kula. Many great learning centers like Vasishta Kula, Kousika kula, Atri Kula, Mareechi Kula, Angira Kula, Bhrigu Kula, Chyvana Kula, Vyasa Kula etc existed at that period – and the knowledge preserved was so vast. Garga know about this all, and was part of this great tradition. Even then he felt astonished by the astrological knowledge preserved and propagated by another such learning center – Yavana Kula. This is wonderful! We could see that later acharyas started mentioning the name of Yavanewara, including him in the list of 18 great gurus of astrology. Narada, Kasyapa, Parasara – no body failed to mention his name! How great an influence he and his school of thought would have been to Indian astrology?!! the opinions by him. Yavanswara says that he got this knowledge of astrology from Brahma (Prajapati), which indicates that he was a follower of Indian tradition itself, but with somewhat slight difference. Some problems surfacing If even Garga felt astonished by this knowledge stream how Mihira can not? But due to these mutual appreciation (between Arsha and Yavana schools of astrology) and scholarly interaction many problems surfaced. They are – • Ancient Indian Rishi Kulas appreciated the knowledge of Yavana school, but never mixed it with there own system. • Even Garga was not an exception to this even though he himself was somewhat outside the Arsha or Sanatana stream due to the fact that he was a follower of Jain philosophy (originated by Rishabha Deva). But we should also remember that at that time Jain hadn’t become a separate religion, but was part of the Vedic stream. Yes, this ‘Yavaneswara’ is a great Rishi, vast treasure house of knowledge, worshiped Surya, had some connections outside India, was well-versed in Sanskrit, was the head guru of Yavana Kula, and lived before BC 1400. He very much appreciated the astrological tradition and knowledge of India, adopted many concepts from India streams and tried to modify them. This too made the Indian scholars give special attention towards him. This is the knowledge we have about his mountainous individuality – he stands tall and unique even among the peaks! • Just contrary to this, Yavaneswara tried to lean all the Indian knowledge as well, modified it applying logic, and taught them as well in his guru kula. This is evident from the example of Nabhasa yogas. Nabhasa Yogas are just mentioned in Arha (Sanatana) Rishi horas like Skanda hora, Brihal prajaptyam etc, but Yavaneswara took this concept and made the number of named Nabhasa Yogas 1800 by applying permutation combination!!!!! The concept of Nabhasa yogas were not totally in line with the foundations of ancient Indian astrology, that is why the Indian Rishis didn’t gave much importance to them. Yavanewara never bothered about it, took this concept, and applied maths to it! The result was 1800 Nabhasa yogas, out of which hundreds of them were astronomical impossibilities!! Here we see the type of interaction and the reason for respect or disrespect. Yavanewara Hora is the text known by his name. His successors (sishya parampara) like Sphujidwaja, Meena raja amply quotes from this text. Later day scholars like Mihira too quotes him and mentions • In the Arsha system of Parasara started mixing the concepts of Yavana, and many of his new concepts as well. Due to this he was also not considered as a true follower of Arsha stream, and was even 21 called Yavana at times, even though he was not Yavana. What ever that be, Parasara is also honored among the 18 great gurus of Astrology. We should remember that, Yavana, Romaka, Poulisa, Lomasa & Parasara schools may not be part of the true (Arsha/Sanatana) stream of astrology. But there was a lot of give and take, and they where also honored among the 18 like the Rishis of Arsha stream – Brahma, Vasishta, Kousika, Atri, Manu, Mareechi, Angira, Vyasa, Sounaka, Kasyapa, Chyevava, Garga, Brihaspati etc. We should remember the other reputed scholars like – Bhrigu (Sukra), Agastya, Suka, Soma, Skanda, Daksha, Surya etc as well. May be this classification itself is not that correct, since every Rishi Kula may have their uniqueness in the system of astrology taught and followed. [We shouldn’t forget the fact that different teachers teach even the same subject differently, and therefore slight differences are always a possibility] • Unlike the ancient Rishis, Mihira also started mixing Arsha School of astrology with thoughts and ideas borrowed from Yavana School, even though he never introduced hundreds of new ideas like Parasara. Even though Mihira was a great teacher this has became a big cause for confusion in later years. Parasara was a Rishi, Mihira a scholar and there is no comparison, but both of them borrowed ideas from Yavana school and thus the original school and system fell back to the back side of memory, and logic and foundations an almost lost memory. This is the brief history of astrology. A problem originated due to the presence of Yavana school of astrology, but for sure not caused by it, as much as the later great scholars like Parasara and Mihira. If Parasara and Mihira the great teachers of Indian astrology deserve better blame, then how can we blame Yavana school of astrology and the great Yavaneswara who peaks high among many?! This school of astrology was successful in preserving its teachings and books while the Arsha school failed to do so!! Shouldn’t we appreciate them, and learn from them? They adopted even the Arsha (astrological) ideas as well and still preserves many and now without their minor help we can not go back and retrieve our originals!!! Apart from this what a great system it in itself is!! [This essay is becoming too long and so I would just brief about the other gurus of this stream and conclude] Sphujidhwaja He was an Indian king who was well versed in Sanskrit, Vedic philosophy and astrology. But he was a follower of Yavana school of astrology and considers Yavaneswara as guru. A great text with the name Sphujidhwaja Hora is available – and it is very good in understanding the contributions of Yavana school. Meenaraja He too was an Indian king, well versed in Sanskrit, and a follower of Yavana school of astrology. A great text with the name Meenaraja Hora (Vridha Yavana Hora) is available. It too is a very good text. Maya Many are confused about whether to call Maya ‘Yavana’ or not. He is not the student of ‘Yavaneswara’ but ‘Surya’. As we know ‘Surya Kula’ was another great teaching center for astrology. Maya modified/wrote ‘Surya Sidhanta’, which later became the backbone of Arsha school of astrology. So even if Maya is ‘Yavana’, he is Yavana of a different mould and is not part of the Yavana school of astrology which started from ‘Yavaneswara’. He was a great architect as well. Surya Sidhanta, Maya Hora, Maya Matam(Vastu) etc are some of the texts by him. He was true acharya with mathematical par excellence, and may be only Aryabhata I of later years have any comparison to him. Maya is not part of this school of astrology taught by ‘Yavaneswara’. Manindha Manindha Hora is the text by him. Mihira mentions and quotes form this text and mention the name of Manindha with respect. Manidha Hora is not available today. 22 Srutakeerti Srutakeerti was a hindu king, but he followed Yavana stream of astrology. Srutakeerti Hora is the text by him. Mihira mentions and quotes form this text and mention the name of Sruitakeerti with respect. Srutakeerti Hora is not available today. Other gurus There might have been many other gurus in this school of thought but the names of many are not popular may be due to the all covering presence of Sphujidhwaja and Meenaraja. Later people started calling Sphujidhwaja by the name ‘Yavana’and Meenaraja by the name ‘Vridha Yavana’. Only a few scholars were good enough to come out of this shade. One of them is Haraji. Haraji He is the author of Manasagari Jataka padhati. He is a Gujarat Brahmin born of ‘Sandilya gotra’. But he too followed the Yavana system of astrology. Therefore Manasagari Jataka padhati should be considered as one of the last text in Yavana school of astrology. The Yavana school of astrology is one of the well reputed and respects schools of ancient Indian astrology, like the Arsha school & Jain school of ancient Indian astrology. The now extinct prediction schemes of Vedic school and Tantric school also needs mention, from which everything seems to have originated. (Call them Vedic and NonVedic or Nigama and Agama origin of everything if you want). In this article I had tried to give a brief idea about the Yavana school of astrology and its books and masters, as far as I know. History is not always simple – it always hides something far beneath hiding even the sources for retrieving them. I hope this article may help you in getting a glimpse of the almost forgotten history of Yavana school of astrology. Dettatreya Mahatantra and Tantric Astrology “The available text on Dattatreya Maha Tantra is a small text“containing 15 chapters and 160 slokas. This text is also known“as "Siromani", meaning "gem in the head'. The text is structured as a“dialogue between lord Parameswara (lord Siva) & Dattatreya Maharshi.“Kala Tantra (Astrology) and Kala Mantra (Medicine) are the 2 subjects“dealt with in. These are 2 knowledge streams the tantrics (tantric“disciples) learned with attention.“Kala Mantra is the branch of Tantra that deals with the use of“medicine related to the tantric worship for the secret purpose of“Killing others, attracting others, making people enemy to each other,“make people leave their native place, Magic, de-poisoning, re-“establishing sexual ability etc. Yes, it is a secret branch of study“and you will encounter thousands of superstitions and stupidities as“well in such texts, along with gem like knowledge bits.“ Kala Tantra (Astrology) is the branch of Tantra that deals“with the study of time for the purpose of knowing about the past-“present-future, time of death etc. Of these two (Kala Tantra and Kala“Mantra), Kala Mantra is the subject dealt with in the available part“of Dattatreya Mahatantra - the description of how to use medicine in“worship along with mantras for the purpose of Shadkarma (Marana,“Mohana, Uchadana, Sthambhana, Vidveshana, Akarshana) etc. But we can“also find some small description about Kala Tantra (Astrology) as“well, here and there in this text.“ [Use of medicine in worship seems to be a superstition. But“hundreds of medicinal plants are mentioned in such slokas, which I“think should have served some secret purpose in the hands of true“guru and sishya of Tantric culture. Tantra is a secret discipline,“and so who could say what would have been the real purpose and use of“these medicines mentioned - even though in the text it is stated that“it is used for the worship like Homa etc]“ Since Dattatreya Mahatantra speaks about Kala Mantra and Kala“Tantra, we could guess that only one part of this text that 23 deals“mainly with Kala Mantra is available to us and the other part that“deals with Kala Tantra might have been lost, in the turbulent flow of“time.“ Listen to the request of Maharshi Dattatreya to lord Siva “"Approaching lord Siva, the lord of all lords, the divine, the well“wisher of all worlds, savior of devotees, whose adobe is Kailasa,“humbly, with folded hands, Dattatreya asked: Oh lord, for the benefit“of the devotees please give advice to us about Kala Mantra"“ In the same style Dattatreya might have learned Kala Tantra“(Astrology) as well from lord Siva (Maheswara). That is why we could“find Kala Tantra (Astrology) as well, here and there in this text.“ Only because Dattatreya mentions astrology here and there in“this text, can be conclude like this? No. It is not the lone reason“for this conclusion. As mentioned earlier, "Siromani" (gem in the“head) is another name for this text. Which branch of study is praised“as "gem in the head" by the saints? Listen to this sloka in Vedanga“Jyotisha-“ "Like the crest of peacock, like the gem stone in the head“of a cobra, Astrology is at the head of all Vedanga sastras (like a“gem)"“ Yes, the praise "gem in the head" usually goes to Kala“Tantra - Astrology, Astronomy and the related mathematics. Because of“this even the other name "Siromani" of Dattatreya Mahatantra,“indicates that Kala Tantra (Astrology) is one of the subject matter“of the text. But that part of the text is lost, and is not available“anymore.“ There is one more point that proves this argument. Dattatreya“gives a list of chapters that are present in Dattatreya Mahatantra at“the beginning chapter of the text. Here 18 chapters are mentioned,“but only the subjects mentioned in 9 chapters is available in the“printed text. Chapters 1,9,12,13,14, 15,16,17,18 (Total 9 chapters)“seems to be missing. This also proves that the available text of“Dattatreya Mahatantra is an incomplete one.“ If we agree up to this the question rises, "Is it Vedanga“Astrology that Dattatreya wanted to learn from lord Siva?" No! As he“wanted to learn medicine (Kala Mantra) that could be made use for“worships aimed at purpose such as Shadkarma etc, he might have“requested to teach astrology (Kala Tantra) that could be made use in“Shadkarma etc. Listen to his request to lord Siva-“ "In this word many types of talismans, manta, tantric“worships are present. Many such are described in Agama, Purana, Veda“and Damara, and in many other texts as well. Please advice the“knowledge of Kala Tantra that would help to utilize all that“knowledge (on Yentra, Mantra etc) 'in the right method' for“fulfilling the intentions" This is what Dattatreya requests.“ As said earlier knowledge about medicine (Kala Mantra) and“Astrology (Kala Tantra) that would be of help is Shadkarma etc is the“subject matter of Dattatreya Mahatantra. This knowledge lies“scattered in Agama, Purana, Veda, Damara etc. Dattatreya is“requesting lord Siva to collect all these knowledge and give“advice/teach him the same 'in the right/correct method'.“ Agamas are Siva Tantric texts - old as Vedas. The word Purana“here indicates 18 Puranas and the Sub Puranas. The word Veda here“indicates the 4 Vedas and the allied literature called Brahmana,“Aaranyaka, Upanishad etc as well. They are also known as Nigama. But“for Tantric devotees the word Nigama indicates Devi Tantra. So the“statement 'Agamokta' should be taken as indicative of both Siva“Tantra (Agama) and Devi Tantra (Nigama) texts. Another branch of“Tantra is Vishnava Tantra. Damaras are also texts on Devi Tantra.“That is, the request of Dattatreya to lord Siva is to collect and“systematically present and teach him the vast knowledge on Kala“Tantra and Kala Mantra which is beneficial for the purpose of“Shadkarma etc, clarifying the right method.“ This sloka indicates that Tantric astrology was in a“corrupted state at the time of Dattatreya, and even for this great“Maharshi it was very difficult to separate the right and wrong“statements from the pile. The sloka also indicates that even in that“remote past Vedas and Puranas borrowed the knowledge of astrology and“medicine from Tantrics and incorporated it in those texts!“ We can feel the pain of the Rishi when he see that this pure“ancient secret knowledge is becoming lost knowledge for the Siva“devotees. He wants it to be the heritage of Siva Tantrics. Listen to“these words -“ "This great knowledge (on astrology and medicine) - which“saves one who devotes himself to this 24 subject, secret, difficult to“get even for davas, first told by lord Siva, shines like a gem in the“head all secret knowledge branches - should be taught only to a“person who is the true devotee of the Guru. This knowledge should not“be imparted to persons who does not believe in acharyas, tradition“and the purity of knowledge. One should teach this pure knowledge to“an individual who is strong willed and is a devotee of lord Siva“alone"“ The statement, "Astrology is originated from lord Siva"“(Tavagre kathitahyesha) asks for special attention. Even in the“period of Prasnamarga (16th century) this truth was appreciated. Even“today traditional astrologers read horoscope, or cast prasna after“bowing to that lord of lords Maheswara (Siva). This is the reason for“the importance of Dakshinamoorti (lord Siva in the form of Guru, God“of knowledge) in Astrology. Lord Siva is the ultimate Guru and“originator of astrologic knowledge as per Tantric tradition.“ Here I would like to mention a curious fact. If we consider“the concept about the originator of astrology as per different“schools of astrology, we will find that -“ Vedic School - lord Brahma (Tropical/ Sayana)“ Tantric School - lord Siva (Sidereal/Nirayana) Arsha School - lord Skanda (Sidereal/Nirayana)“ Jayne School - lord Brahma (Sidereal/Nirayana)“This is curious! This difference in concept about the originator of“astrology, probably indicates that, these are all different schools“of thought in astrology, which probably originated and existed in the“same era. Is it not so? Since the basic concepts (Such as Rasi and“Nakshatra) where the same, they might have got intermixed in a later“stage. It is also possible that, all these basic concepts such as“Rasi and Nakshatra was originally borrowed from some other“civilization which existed before all these cultures, such as the“Sindhu-Saraswati civilization. Only an in-depth study and new“evidences could prove whether any amount of truth is present in this“guess or not.“ In this essay I started by discussing the astrological“content in the available slokas of Dattatreya Mahatantra - and so let“us go back to that. Most of the slokas after this discuss how“medicines could be utilized for Shadkarma (Kala Mantra) etc. Lord“Siva tells Dattatreya -“Now I will speak about Kala Mantra which is beneficial for“the upliftment of th individual. This secret knowledge (on medicine)“which is beneficial even in this kali yuga, I will teach you, putting“aside the knowledge of astrology"“Because -“ "(For the benefit with medicine) It is not essential to“consider Tithi, Nakshatra, Vreta, Day, Pooja, Japa, Homa etc. Even“the determination of an auspicious muhoorta is not essential. Merely“applying the medicine that suits well for the well being of mind and“body serves the purpose. By the use of it the disease gets cured.“(Medicines are invaluable, and their effect mysterious. Because of“this I will explain to you, how to use these medicines in Shadkarma“worships)"“ With this advice lord Siva starts to speak about Kala Mantra“(Medicine). Since those slokas are not related to astrology, I am not“discussing them here. If anyone is interested bye and read the“printed text of Dattatreya Mahatantra to know more about that.“ But the last chapter of the available printed text (chapter“15) deals with Kala Tantra (Astrology). The determination of the time“of death is the subject discussed. Siva said:“Oh, Maha yogi, Dattatreya Mahamune, for the benefit of human“beings I will tell to you about death time determination. Listen"““Dwadesa dala chakrastham Mrityukalam cha veekshitam“Chaitradi masa sankhayani likhyante dwadese dale“Meshadi rasaya sthapya suryadi likhyate grahaH“Janma riksha janma rasim veekshante mrityukarake“Surya vedhe manastapam budha soukhyam pravartate“Yatrayam teertha jeeve cha chandre stri sukha sambadaH“Bhrigu vedhe rajya labhaH mase mase vicharayete“ (Dattatreya Mahatantra)“"From the Rasichakra with 12 petals, we can have an idea bout the“time of death. For that first write the numbers of months starting“from the month of Chaitra in each petal. In each of the petal place“signs starting from Aries. Now, as per current planetary position“write down the names of Grahas such as Sun, Moon etc in the Rasi“chakra. If the Mrityu Karaka Graha (Saturn?) aspects (Drishti) the“Lagna (Lagna star?) or Moon sign then it is death time. If Vedha is“present, then for sun - sadness, for Mercury - happiness, 25 for“Jupiter - pilgrimage, for Moon - happiness from sexual acts with“women, for Venus - gain of land results. This type of prediction can“be done every month"“ Some interprets that the Sripati's system of Gochara-Vedha is“mentioned here (?!). They also argue that if Nakshatra Vedha and Rasi“Vedha is present at the same time then for sure it is time for Kala“Mrityu (Ultimate/Sure chance of death) (?!)“ But this sloka was a real problem to me and I just got“confused. Why? I will explain.“(1) Mention of months starting from Chitra“------------------------------------------“ Why it is said that after drawing the Rasi chakra we should“write down the numbers corresponding to the months starting from“Chaitra in each square of the Rasi chakra? Did he mean to say that -“ Chaitra = Mesha (Aries)“ Visakha = Vrishabha (Taurus) etc ?“ If so does it mean that the starting point of Aries should be“calculated, taking Chitra star as a reference? That is, as if the“point 180 deg away from Chitra star is the starting point of Aries or“the like?“(2) Mrityu Karaka Graha“-----------------------“ Is Saturn mentioned with the word Mrityu Karaka? If so, the“wordings "Janma riksha janma rasim veekshante sanaischare", directly“mentioning Saturn would have been enough. Then why the author chose“to omit directly mentioning Saturn and instead used the word Mritru“Karaka (Significator of death) ?“ If not only Saturn but also other planets should be“considered, then what other house lords and planets we should“consider?“(3) Riksha - Nakshatra or sign“------------------------------“ The word Riksha has got 2 meanings - Nakshatra and sign. With“the word Janma Riksha Dattatreya Maharshi is mentioning Lagna“Nakshatra, Lagna sign, Moon Nakshatra or Moon sign? If we think that“here the word Riksha represents both Nakshatra and Sign, then is it“that we should consider both Nakshatra Vedha and Rasi Vedha for death“time determination? How to calculate Nakshatra Vedha and Rasi Vedha“in planetary context?“(4) Vedha and the related prediction“------------------------------------“ Here if Vedha is present for beneficial planets, then it is“said that results also would be beneficial!! This is contradictory to“the Vedha concept of Sripati. As per Tantric astrology how many types“of Vedha is present? How to calculate Nakshatra Vedha, Rasi Vedha and“Graha Vedha in the planetary context? What are the rules to be“observed while predicting with this type Vedha concept?“(5) Transit or Gochara“---------------------“ This Gochara-Vedha system of prediction can be used for“prediction every month (Mase mase vicharayet) says Dattatreya. Did he“meant to say that Transit should be considered for the determination“of death time? If so why he avoided mentioning the transit prediction“for Mars, Saturn, Rahu and Ketu?“(6) Vedha and Tantric Astrology“-------------------------------“ Probably Sripati who lived in 10th century AD, is the person“who introduced the concept of Vedha in astrology. But here we“encounter a similar concept in Dattatreya Mahatantra as well! What“should we observe from it? Should we think that Dattatreya Tantra“originated after Sripati of 10th century AD? Or should we think that“Sripati borrowed the concept of Vedha from Tantric astrology“especially from Dattatreya Tantra?“ No. I don't have answers to such doubts. If we want to find“answers to the above or similar questions, an in-depth study of the“astrology mentioned in Tantric texts (Tantric Astrology) is a must.“ For simplifying the study of ancient astrology, we can“classify them into several categories:-“(i) Astrology in Sindhu-Saraswati period (Sindhu-Saraswati“Astrology)“(ii) Astrology mentioned Vedas and allied literature (Vedic“Astrology)“(iii) Astrology mentioned Epics (Epic Astrology)“(iv) Astrology mentioned in Puranas (Puranic Astrology)“(v) Astrology mentioned in Tantric texts (Tantric Astrology) - It“is the biggest treasure, thousands of unexplored texts (and a whole“secret tradition) waiting for us!“[Chandra Hari is specially interested in Tantric Astrology and the“Sidhantic astronomy]“(vi) Astrology of Arsha school which is scattered in various“ancient astrological texts. This is a well accepted stream in Indian“astrology starting with Skanda Hora, Brihal Prajapatyam, Vasishta“Hora, Kousika Hora etc. The acharyas in this school are great Rishis“like Skanda, 26 Daksha, Vasishta, Kousika, Sounaka etc, and the“authentic Sidhantic text 'Surya Sidhanta'. (Arsha Astrology)“[I am specially interested in this stream of thought]“(vii) Astrology of Jayne school which is scattered in various“ancient astrological texts. This is a well accepted stream in Indian“astrology starting with Garga Hora, Surya Prajchapti etc. The“acharyas in this school are Garga, Rishputra etc. (Jayne Astrology)“[Yes, of course there are other streams of thought as well like“Yavana and Parasara. But books on that them is not yet lost“completely, and that is why I am not including them here on the above“list]“There is not even a single authentic text available that tries to“explore the depths of any of the categories mentioned above! There is“a vast area available for research! They are requesting to“us, "please, please, come forward and reveal the knowledge we“preserved for you..." All this ancient knowledge on astrology are“still behind the dark curtain of half forgotten, unexplored literary“history. This vast knowledge is praying to us, "Tamasoma“Jyotirgamaya...". Yes, there is a large amount of work pending, and“is seeking our immediate attention. All these knowledge is meditating“there inside the dark cave and is ready to shower their secrets“before the true seekers of knowledge. Those who are truly inquisitive“can start their search from here. Let us begin our search for the“hidden treasures of astrological knowledge. Enjoy! It is child's play-“and the vast treasure house waiting for us, to be explored! Let us“begin search and present the valuables we find, before the all, for“the benefit of posterity! And Enjoy the fun of learning!“Love,“Sreenadh“ About the system of Black Magic “We the children of cosmic divine destroy the incarnation of sin ‘Niriti’ (the god of death) and thus destroy the evilness and diseases that eat us up every day, every moment, by following the consciousness. Thus we destroy the evilness in us and remove the darkness that covers over understanding. Oh! God give us the power to do so!” - Atharva Veda Let it be the malicious path or the good path, to study mantravada (A deviant path of Tatra, which aims at fulfillment of intentions) a guru (teacher) is necessary. Why? Atharvada says that- ‘Death, Water and Moon are my teachers. Rice, wheat and all other food materials I am getting due to the compassion of the teacher. Everything and every event in the world are my teachers’Ashtanga hridaya (A book on Ayurveda, which speaks about medicine and healing techniques, written by saint Charaka) also speaks in the same line- ‘For an intelligent individual, in his every act, the world itself is the teacher. Because of this in worldly matters after understanding the ways methods and nature of nature and living beings one should follow the same’. These messages may give us the feeling that a separate guru is not necessary to learn even subjects like Mantravada. Ultimately, ‘Siva, the god which is present in and with which the whole universe is made up of, is the first guru and he himself lightens himself in everybody as consciousness – thus says the knowledgeable ones’ (Quote from Suta samhita) The ultimate or the only real possible guru is within ourselves – which is nothing but consciousness. The teachers can only show the way, actual teaching and learning happens from within – we ourselves are the real gurus for ourselves. This being the real situation, we may feel that the stress on having another individual as guru to teach Mantravada (or any other similar subject) is something over stated. But it is not so. Kularnava Tantra tells us that- ‘Siva (or the enlightened consciousness), the ultimate guru is divine. It may not be possible for common people to see or decipher it – they always live in confusion, and darkness encompasses their consciousness always. Due to this the students of subjects like Tantric worships should take someone who is truly spiritual (who wish and act for the well being of the universe and himself, by following his own nature) as guru, and follow his teachings (till he himself lightens up, and becomes a guru who could see his own path or true nature – i.e. ‘Dharma’). [By the way ‘Dharma’, ‘Tao’ all mean almost the same and could be trans- 27 lated as ‘the path’; But even this definition does not clarify full depth of the word ‘Dharma’. An example may clarify further. ‘Burning is the true dharma of Fire’. Or in other words ‘Dharma’ could also be translated as ‘true nature’ (of something)] Thus it becomes clear that to study ‘Mantravada’ in the right way, a teacher is a must. This stays true for both Dur-Mantravada (Malicious Mantravada or ‘Black Magic’ and ‘Good Mantravada’ or ‘White Magic’). If not we will end up having an erroneous understanding of this subject – as truly visible from the words ‘Black Magic’, which itself can cause confusion regarding the depth and nature of this subject itself. The Fundamental constituents Having said that, I think now we have the minimum ground necessary to embark on this subject. But before going into this study, we should have at least a minimum understanding of the constants and of this subject – i.e. Dur Mantravada. It should be clearly noted that I am speaking about Dur-Mantravada (Black Magic) which is a deviation happened in the path of Tantra and not about Tantra itself. The fundamental constituents differ a lot in both. [If you want to know more about ‘Tantra’ read the book ‘Bhirava Tantra’ by Osho] Here I am speaking about the constituents of the system of Black Magic and not about Tantra. ‘Tanta’ means ‘Technique’ and it is more about attaining enlightenment by the union of opposites – Man and Women, Siva and Sakti. Dur-Mantravada (Black Magic) is more concerned with various beliefs, and techniques to fulfill intentions, anchoring on those beliefs. Black Magic is more or less based on the following beliefs1) 2) 3) 4) 5) The belief in the power of secret hymns. The belief in the principles of similarity and transition The belief in Ayurveda system of medicine The belief in astrology The belief in para-normal and para-psychic powers (of ours and non-human) 6) The belief in the words of our ancestors (the belief in traditional beliefs) 7) The belief in ceremonial act or worship techniques used 8) The belief in the theory of Karma (Karma sidhanta): Eg. What you do, the result of that you are sure to get, in this life or the other. 9) The belief in re-birth. 10) The belief in multiple gods 11) The belief in the ability of dreams to foretell future 12) The belief in time a. The knowledge of Time and its nature (Time is the ultimate counter part of the universe, providing the extra dimension) b. Knowledge of the effects of time (Calendar and Muturta systems) c. The belief that we can defy time and thus death (through meditation and breath control) d. The worship of the destroyer of time (Kalakala – ‘Siva’ who can cause the death of time itself) 13) The ultimate state (enlightenment) a. Duality (Siva - Sakti) = Dvaita b. Single God (There are several systems which consider Tripura sundari or Akhora as this single god) = Eka Daiva c. Unity (The realization that the creator, creation and the rules are one and the same) = Advaita Except the last one, all the others are beliefs – but the last one is rather a realization than a belief. If somebody gross from the preliminaries of ‘Black Magic’ (ceremonial worships for intension fulfillment) to considering this as a path for enlightenment, then he is in the path of ‘Tantra’ rather than ‘Black Magic’. Ö From the next mail onwards I will try to elaborate on some of these beliefs. The aim 28 of that effort would be to make us understand a method to differentiate the pearls and waste material and literature that is present in the system of ‘Black Magic’. Ö Once the above steps is covered, we will look into the classification (Shad Karma = Marana, Mohana, Uchadana etc) and functional constituents (Mantramsaka = Mantra deeksha, Snana, Dyana, Pranayama etc), and technical constituents (Mantra recitation, Homa, Use of flowers, gems and garlands, prasada dana, use of medicines and chemicals etc) Only such an elaboration can give us the ground to have a minimum understanding of point one, I mentioned in my previous mail. I hope this mail, succeeded in providing the outline of the point under discussion, and the area it covers. Note: The elaboration and continuation of this mail depends on your response. If you all are interested in this subject me too is. If you are not interested then me too not.. ;) This should be a group discussion for the group interest. If the subject does not serve this purpose, we can drop it and move on to something else. But if it does, we will continue with the same. About the Gospel of Eve I happen to read something about the ‘Gospel of Eve’ (form GnosticGospels Yahoo group). The Gospel of Eve is known only from one or two short quotations from the words of Epiphanius (310/ 20 - 402), bishop of Salamis*. He tells us that certain Gnostic sects used it. As per Epiphanius, these are the words ‘Jesus’ as collected by ‘Mary’ (probably Magdalene). As per this sect, Jesus himself was the first teacher of the ritualistic practices and techniques they followed. The quotations are as follows“I stood upon a high mountain and saw a tall man, and another of short stature, and heard something like the sound of thunder and went nearer in order to hear. Then he spoke to me and said: I am thou and thou art I, and wherever thou art, there am I, and I am sown in all things; and whence thou wilt, thou gatherest me, but when thou gatherest me, then gatherest thou thyself. [Epiphanius, Panarion,26.3.1]” This is beautiful! Jesus standing at the hill, and Mary listening to his words. It is a conversation between a guru and his disciples. The guru is reflecting his revelation, and is not speaking to anybody in particular. See the beauty of these words- “I am thou and thou art I, and wherever thou art, there am I, and I am sown in all things; and whence thou wilt, thou gatherest me, but when thou gatherest me, then gatherest thou thyself.” Jesus is just reflecting his revelation - “I am god and I am the creation of god, where ever is the creation of god there I am, I am present in all things, and when god takes them back, he is collecting me, but when he is collecting me, he is collecting him himself (because I am one with god)” Jesus is expressing his consciousness. The experience of the reality where the Creation, Creature, The Action of creation becomes one, Where the Law, Law giver, and those that are governed by the law becomes one. All enlightened men speak on similar terms – let it be Krishna, Buddha, Mahaveera, Osho or Jiddu. The soul (Microcosm) and the Brahma(Macrocosm) are one and the same. Whether in this subtle spiritual sense or in the materialistic sense. It cannot be the other way round! The soul is scattered and is present everywhere – it is the feeling of Union – one with the universe! “They say that the same soul is scattered about in animals, 29 beasts, fish, snakes, humans, trees, and products of nature. [Epiphanius, Panarion, 26.9.1.]” This is Tantra, This is Veda, This is Upanishad, and This is Zen. ‘Prenja’ (Consciousness) and the total experience of consciousness – always being in consciousness - (enlightenment) was the same for the whole humanity from staring of human evolution to till date. The experience is the same. But the description, expressing it in words may differ as per the articulation capabilities of the individuals. ‘Vistaram Vastu saktita’ – elaboration depends on the capabilities and knowledge of the individuals. I loved and was greatly impressed by the above quote, and therefore thought to share it with you all. One more observation of Epiphanius attracted my attention. He says that details of theology (which depends on the knowledge of non-experienced people) of these Gnostic sects varied from one sub-sect to another. As per the sect that used the ‘Gospel of Eve’- “In outline the material world was ruled by an evil “archon” or intermediate deity. The bodily flesh belonged to this archon, and would not be raised up.” The info that attracted my attention is the word ‘archon’ which is still used in south Indian Dravidian languages which means ‘King’. It is spelled archon or arachan and finds its root in the Sanskrit word ‘Rajan’ (King). This suddenly makes sense, and helps us in deciphering the observation of Epiphanius. So the translated meaning of the above words would be – “The material world was and is, ruled by an Evil** King or Government. Our body and worldly actions belonged to, controlled by, ruled by, them. We are forced to obey them. The Government or any other moralistic law giver (e.g. religious authorities) is the immediate ruler. But worshipping or obeying such materialistic rules and laws and the ethics framed by them or the rituals will not help us in spiritual upliftment. The laws of spiritual upliftment are entirely different and comes from within. The law of the divine is entirely different and is beyond the classifications such as good or evil”. [Seek not the law in your scriptures, for the law is life, whereas the scripture is dead. I tell you truly, Moses received not his laws from God in writing, but through the living word. The law is living word of living God to living prophets for living men. In everything that is life is the law written. You find it in the grass, in the tree, in the river, in the mountain, in the birds of heaven, in the fishes of the sea; but seek it chiefly in yourselves. For I tell you truly, all living things are nearer to God than the scripture which is without life. God so made life and all living things that they might by the everlasting word teach the laws of the true God to man. God wrote not the laws in the pages of books, but in your heart and in your spirit. They are in your breath, your blood, your bone; in your flesh, your bowels, your eyes, your ears, and in every little part of your body. They are present in the air, in the water, in the earth, in the plants, in the sun beams, in the depths and in the heights. They all speak to you that you may understand the tongue and the will of the living God. – Jesus says in ‘Gospel of Pease’] Isn’t that beautiful? He was a real rebel! [he taught quite otherwise than the priests and scribes - ‘Gospel of Pease’] By the way the study of Gnostic Gospels (Gospels of Philip, Thomas (Brother of Jesus), Eve, Judas, the Gospel of Pease etc) will reveal that the path followed by Jesus is more related to the ‘Tantric’ system followed by many people in ancient and modern India. Know that in ‘Gospel of Judas’ Jesus speaks about the Calendar system related to Yugas (72 Manuwantaras) and the division of Zodiac (12 Signs). The understanding of the mutual correspondence of external Wheel of Time (Kala-chakra = Zodiac) as reflected in sky (21600 min) and internal Wheel of Time as reflected in human body (21600 breaths per day) is arrived at and reveled by the ‘Tantric Yoga’ path, which stresses on meditation & Yoga to have the experience of union with the universe (enlightenment). Note: 30 * Note that Epiphanius was the bishop of Salamis (A person after power), who wanted to spread Christianity. Therefore except the (original looking) quotes he provides, don’t believe in any other info he provides, because the intention of de-grading the worship methods followed by any other sects other than his own, would be there fore sure. As per his own description, when the people of this sect, in which man and women were free, and equally participated in the worship of the divine, invited Epiphanius to participate in their rituals “Epiphanius prayed to God, resisted the women, and freed himself from the sect. He then reported them to the bishops, who drove eighty of them from the city.” So he was the destroyer of this sect, (into which Jesus himself belonged) rather than a supporter of it. from Aris and Houses starts from the Ascendant? Let us go through some of the available refferences. ** Let it be King, Government, religious authorities; people after power is without exception, evil. Varahamihira (6th Century) The accounts and texts related to ‘Gospel of Eve’ are from: Wilhelm Schneemelcher, New Testament Apocrypha, James Clarke & CoWestminster/John Knox Press, Cambridge and Louisville, 1990, and Philip Amidon, The Panarion of St Epiphanius, Oxford University Press, 1990. The accounts and texts related to ‘Gospel of Pease’ are from: The Original Hebrew and Aramaic Texts. Translated and edited by EDMOND BORDEAUX SZEKELY MCMLXXXI. INTERNATIONAL BIOGENIC SOCIETY, 1981. Part -II Sign and House are the same We may think that Sign are House are different, because there are so many methods - such as one put forward by Sreepathi (10th century), Krishnamoorthi, 30 Degree equal division etc. Now what was the opinion of ancient Rishis on this subject? Have they considered Sign and House differently - except from the fact that Signs starts Parasara If you use Jagannatha hora program to calculate houses, you already know of many methods for calculating houses the first option is, ‘Each Rasi is a house (Parasari /True Vedic)’. Which itself shows that PVR and Rath has done sufficient study on the subject and came to the conclusion that Parasara considered ‘Each Sign as a House’. I take it as sufficient proof and do not want to discuss the slokas put forward by Parasara in detail. Let us see what are the opinions of others. Varahamihira says that - ‘Rasi kshethra griharksha bhani bhavanam chaikardha samprethyaye’. Which means - the words Rasi, Kshethra, Griha, Riksha, Bham and Bhavanam are used in the same meaning through out the text Varahahora. (Note the fact that the words Rasi and Griha are used in the same meaning). Ok. For that what? I will explain. In the 15th sloka of the first chapter he states that‘Horadayasthanu kudumba sahotdha bandhuputhrari pathni maranani subhaspadaya ribhakhyamithyupachanyari karma labhaduschithka samgjitha “grihani” na nithyameke’ Which means that - the Houses (Grihani) starting from ascendant have the names Thanu (Body -Ascendant), Kudumba (Own house 2nd house), Sahotdha (Brothers - 3rd house), Bandhu (Relatives 4th house), Puthra (Son - 5th house), Ari (Enemy - 6th house), Pathni (Wife - 7th house), Marana (Death - 8th house), Subha (Good things - 9th house), Aspada (Job - 10th house), Aya (Earnings - 11th house), Ribha (Expenditure - 12th house). 31 Everybody will accept the fact that houses are mentioned here. I am attracting your attention to the word, which was used to describe these houses - it is ‘Griha’. In earlier statement Varahamihira has already said that the words Griha and Rasi and used in the same name throughout his text. Is it not a convincing evidence for the fact that Varahamihira considered Sign (Rasi) and house as the same? If you are not convinced note the next sloka. ‘Kalya swa vikrama griha prethibha kshethani chithodha randhra guru mana bhava vyeyani legnachathurdha nidhane chathurasra samjche dunam cha sapthama “griham” desamarkshamajcha’ Which means (only the relevant portion) - the houses (Griham) starting from the ascendant have the names Kalya (Fame - Ascendant), Swa (Assets - 2nd house), Vikrama (Courage - 3rd house), Griha (House were you are born - 4th house), Prethibha (Intelligence - 5th house), Kshethani (Wounds - 6th house), Chithodha (Ego - 7th house), Randhra (8th house), Guru (Teacher - 9th house), Mana (Proudness - 10th house), Bhava (Next birth - 11th house), Vyeya (Expenditure - 12th house). Here also note the fact that the word Griha is used - which explicitly means Sign and House at the same time, because the words Sign and House means the same thing, with the only difference that Signs are counted from Aris while the Houses are counted from Ascendant. Therefore it becomes clear that even at the period of 6th century AD, Signs and Houses are considered the same. It was people like Sreepathi (10th century) who made all the confusion by interpreting Sign and House as two different entities, and by providing new techniques of the calculation of Houses. (And just look - in what a mess we are!! There are 5 or more methods for calculating house!! In which we should depend on?! I don’t want to go into the detail) Even after all this happened there were learned scholars who never let away the correct system - and if you are not convinced read Krishneeyam and Saravali. Krishneeyam Krishneeyam is written by one krishnacharya who probably lived in the 13th Century AD. A well-known and fascinating commentary for this classic text is chathura-sundari, written by Vishnu (the son of madhavacharya who has written madhaveeya). While commenting on the 9th sloka of Krishneeyam, he says, “adha moorthyadishu dvadesa rasishu dwadesha bhavanaha”. Which means, ‘Starting from the ascendant the twelve signs are also known as twelve houses’. This is so clear and explicit a statement, that no true learner of astrology can deny the fact that, Vishnu considered Signs and Houses as the same thing. This also points to the fact that, Krishnacharya and Madhavacharya also considered Signs and Houses as the same thing. Conclusion If all these ancient acharyas (Rishis, Parasara, Varahamihira, Krishnacharya, Madhavacharya, Kalyanavarama etc) considered Sign and House as the same thing, who are we to say that they are different. Therefore any true learner of Vedic astrology, should accept and follow the path shown by these acharyas, and consider Sign and House as the same thing. (Probably Sreepathi had started all this trouble) Origin of the word Jyotisha >> > > Dear Vinitaji, > > The word Jyotisha does not seems to be appropriate compared to > the > > original word that is used to denote astrology - the words used > > is “Kala Tantra” and “Kala vidhana sastra”, , meaning “subject > that 32 > > deals with time” or the “science of time”. > > Now coming to the word Jyotisha the better word used by our > > ancestors is “JyothiHsastra”, which is a combined name for > Astrology, > > Astronomy and the related Mathematics. If we divide the word, it > > would be as follows: > > JothiHsastra = Jyotis+Sastra (and NOT jyoti+sastra). > > “Jyotis” indicates the light emitting bodies, or the light > > reflecting bodies as seen from earth. Thus is indicates both stars > > and planets. “Sastra” means “Ancient advice” (Sasyate ithi > sastra). > > There fore in essence “JyotiHsastra” means “Ancient advice about > > stars and planets” or if you want to use the word science then > > say “Science that deals with stars and planets”. > > You said: > > “Jyotisha” mean Jyoti + Isha = light of god. > > That meaning is entirely new to me, and never heard any one > > mentioning such a meaning. If we consider the word “Jotisha” and > if > > we want to divide it, yes, of course we can say it is “Joti+Isha”. > > But what is that “Isha”?!! In sanskrit “Eesa” or “Esana” is god, > god > > Siva, who is the lord of North-West direction. But what > is “Isha”?! > > How can we say that it means “God”? If you have any reference, > please > > provide. > > If we consider the subject matter of astrology, we will recognize > > that it deals with destiny, the rhythm of solar system, and > movements > > of planets and mathematical points, though all of which TIME runs > as > > a connecting thread. It is better scientific, when known as > > the “subject that deals with time” or the “science of time” rather > > than “Ancient advice about stars and planets”. The demerit of the > > second definition is that in predictive astrology we are not at > all > > dealing with the stars, but only with Nakshatras (fixed area in > sky > > covering an area of 13 deg 20 min). Still, the words Kala Tantra, > > Kala vidhana sastra, Jyotisastra are better than the > word “Jyothisha” > > I would say. > > Love, > > Sreenadh >> Dear Vinita ji, You said: > “Jyotisha” mean Jyoti + Isha = light of god. I disagree - and is providing my thoughts on the word “Jyotisha”. The Origin of the word “Jotisha” The ancient names for astrology were Kala Tantra (Science of Time), Kala Vidhana Sastra (Study of classification of time - i.e. Calendar system), Jyotisastra (Study of light emitting or light reflecting celestial bodies) etc. This branch of knowledge was also known as Jyotishmati (An intellect/brain enlightened by the thoughts on cosmic spheres & light sources) from the period of Atharva Veda. ‘Mati’ means intelligence and also denotes an individual with intelligence, brainy person. The first text on astrology, i.e. Skanda Hora (as per Arsha school) is also known as ‘Jyotishmati’. It is said that Jyotishmati text (Skanda Hora) is the appendix of Atharva Veda (Atharva Khila), and is an Upanishad. Many slokas from this text is available even today. Only a person with Jyotishmati (An intellect enlightened by the thoughts on cosmic spheres & light sources) can predict accurately. May be the word ‘Jyotish’ is the natural abbreviation of the ancient word ‘Jyotishmati’, which denotes astrology, astrological texts, and the astrologer. The exact meaning of the word ‘Jyotish’ alone would be ‘light related’ and does not seems to depict the exact subject mat- 33 ter of astrology. > Time is always with regard to motions....motions with respect to > something fixed like the Nakshatras....i remember reading somewhere > that if there was no movement with reference to something fixed, > there would be no time, according to the theory of relativity. We should better think according to relativity - as per context. ;) Newton’s law of gravitation is wrong as per Einstein and there is no force called gravitation but only curvature of space. :) But this statement does not keep us away from using Newton’s laws of motion when we consider the planetary movements in solar system. Same is the case with ‘Fixed’ areas in sky - Nakshatras. As you brought relativity, movements etc into picture - I would just like pose a puzzle. As per Newton, the force or attraction between two bodies is proportional to their mass and the distance between them. You know it right? I am just twisting the contextThe force of attraction one body exerts on another depends on the mass of the other body and the distance between them! This means that the first body should ‘KNOW’ the mass of the other body and the distance between them before hand!! And gravitation depends on that! How an inert body can ‘KNOW’ the existence of the other body - is it that Newton wants to say that every body has a ‘Mind’ within?! :) Now may be you could see, how things could be misinterpreted, when taken out of context, or out of the framework where they are supposed to be used. In Science they use the word ‘System’ to denote the framework with in which each concept is valid. Same is true for the concepts used in any holistic subject. Yes, I suggest, dive deep into the subject and understand the importance of the concept ‘System’ or ‘Frame work’ used both in Scientific and Holistic study methods. > I came across an interesting link regarding how the 0 point in the > zodiac would determine the extent to which there is equal division > of the signs (and the nakshatras?). > Intuitively, it is difficult to think of how each nakshatra > could be placed EXACTLY at a distance of 13 deg 20 min from the > other, just as it is difficult to imagine that all the > constellations/signs of the zodiac can be contained EXACTLY > within 30 degrees. Signs and Nakshatras are mathematical divisions of the ecliptic, and in the current developmental stage of astrology has nothing to do with the imaginary shape of stellar constellations. If you want to know more about the mathematics and concepts behind the fixing of Zero point in the zodiac, and also how the signs and Nakshatras got divided, first go to the files section of this group and read the files in the folder named “Chandra Hari” and also the articles I wrote about the works mathematical proofs provided by Chandrahari, which you will find in the folder named “Sreenadh” in the files section. PS: We may find several questions for which none of us have any answer. But yes, we can enquire, search, ask others, and yes, when we are genuinely interested some answers will pope up from some corners when the time is ripe. Thanks for the good mail which initiates an interesting discussion. “Ohm...Sahanavavatu...Sahanou bhunaktu... Sahaveeryam Karavavahi.......Tejasweenamadhenamastu... ma..Vidishavahai......Ohm....Santi..Santi..Santi..” Astrology in Epic period Re: Astrology in epic period Dear All, I felt like re-reading some of the previous messages and continuing that thread, since I encountered a new sloka today. 34 In the ancient text ‘Jyotisha Karandak’ (probably a text in the Jain school of astrology), it is said thatLagnam cha dakhinavisute suvi assa uttaram ayane Lagnam sai visuvesu panchasu vi dakhina ayane This sloka is in Prakrit. In sanskrit is should beLagnam cha dakshina vishuveshwapi asvam uttara ayane Lagnam swati vishuveshu panchaswapi dakshina ayane In this sloka the Nakshatras Aswati and Swati are said to be the ‘Lagna’ of the equinox!! This probably means that there was a time when Nakshatras where considered similar to Rasi!! Consider it along with the fact that in Epics only Nakshatra chakra and placement of planets in Nakshatra is mentioned! For sure we know thatIn Vedic period : Tropical calender + (fixed) Nakshatra chakra was used So if Vedic astrology was Tropical, and if Nakshatra chakra was a gift of Vedic astrology, then is it that Nirayana (Siderial) system based on Rasis is of Non-Vedic origin? Is it that epics depicts the extension of Nakshatra chakra system? Chandra Hari ji says: > > Whatabout the Weekdays? Epics have no mention of them. Without > > weekdays can there be astrology? As far as I know, it might be ‘Yanjchavalkya Smriti’ that mentions week days first. It says SooryaH Somo MaheeputraH Somaputro BrihaspatiH SukraH sanaischaro rahuH ketuschaite grahaH smrita Meaning, Su, Mo, Ma, Me, Ju, Ve, Sa, Ra and Ke are the Grahas. We can see the planets arranged in the order of Weekdays in this sloka. Is it that week days originated in the period of Smriti only? Or is it that the Non-vedic (or Vedic?) concept of Weekdays got a mentioned in smritis only by the period of Yajchavalkya smriti? By the way, Do you know which is the text that first mentions the name of Rasis (Signs)? I have a cute info. In ‘Bodhayana sootra’ it is said that“Meena Meshayor Mesha Vrishabhayor vasnta” It might be the first mention of signs starting from Aries (Mesha) in available literature. In Yajchavalkya smriti also the signs are mentioned. Which of them is oldest? Who knows!! Just sharing some info. :) A Secret Exposed In Prasnamarga it is said that “if a person with true inquisitiveness is approaching an astrologer, then the astrologer should tell him about problem he is facing and should suggest the appropriate solution”. But how? How should we (astrologers) know, what the qurent is thinking about, if he is presenting the query by himself? In places like Kerala, usually a person approaches an astrologer and just says : “I want to cast a prasna.” !!!! And it becomes the responsibility of the astrologer to decipher: 1) What the prasna is about? 2) What is the possible solution for the problem faced by the qurent? Yes. It is real challenge!! A challenge towards the capability of the astrologer, and also about the accuracy of horary astrology!! How the learned astrologers solve this situation? Do you want to know? Then read on There are 2 slokas (good and authentic) that help the traditional 35 astrologer to predict what the qurent is thinking about or what the query is about. One of them is from Prasnamarga and the other is from Varaha Hora. In this mail I will explain the first one - the one from Prasnamarga. The sloka is like this : “Aprishtatha prishtatho va jinchasyoresya kasyachil Hora Kendra Trikonebhya Subhasubha Phalam Vadeth” Actually this sloka is not of Prasnamarga, but of Vasishta Hora. The author of Prasnamarga has just quoted (included) this sloka from Vasishta Hora as evident from the next sloka - “Vasita vachanadasmath.........” Meaning, Since Rishi Vasishta said this and also me (author of Prasnamarga)..... Yes, since Rishi Vasishta told this secret and author of Prasnamarga (Edakkad Nambootiri) supported it, the sloka gets double authenticity!! What is the meaning of that sloka? Let me quote it again: “Aprishtatha prishtatho va jinchasyoresya kasyachil Hora Kendra Trikonebhya Subhasubha Phalam Vadeth” Meaning, If somebody approaches the astrologer with curiosity, even if he asks or not, the astrologer should give predictions to him, BASED ON HORA, KENDRA AND TRIKONA. Yes, it seems to be simple, and it seems that there is no secret hiding behind. NO! It is not like that! There is lot to explain a SECRET behind, as is known to all traditional astrologers. What is that? The advice by Vasishta is that prediction should be based on “Hora Kendra Trikonebhya”. What is “Hora”? “Horeti legnam Bhavanasyachardham” (Varaha hora) Meaning, Hora is the name for Lega (Asc) or Half of a sign. For our above sloka, the meaning Hora=Lagna is the apt one. There for in essence it means, if there is any planet in the Lagna, then the qurent is seeking answer to the things indicated by that placement of that particular planet! If there is no planet in Lagna, then what to do? Read on the sloka- “Hora -> Kendra->” Yes, if there is no planet in Lagna, then look for the placement of planets in Kendra. Kendra means 4th 7th and 10th Houses/Signs from Lagna. Now the question is where to look? In 4th, in 7th or in 10th. The traditional answer to this question is first in 10th. Why? Because if you look in Laghu parasari, you will see the statement “Pradabala Utharotharam”, Meaning for Kendras the strength increases in the order 4th->7th->10th. That means 7th is stronger Kendra than 4th, and 10th is stronger Kendra than 7th. Indications the strength order 10>7>4. So look at the 10th house first. If there is no planet in Lagna, then if there is a planet in 10th house, then the query is related to that placement! If there is no planet in 10th as well, then look in 7th to see whether there is any planet in it, if not look in 4th. Now what to do if there is no planet in Lagna as well as 10th, 7th and 4th? Look what the sloka says? “Hora -> Kendra->Trikonebhya” Yes, if there is no planet in Kendra, we have to look for the placement of planet in Trikona, meaning 5th and 9th. Now, here also where to look? In 5th or 9th. The statement “Prabala Utharotharam” applies here as well. That means 9th is stronger trikona than 5th and so we have to look for the placement of any planet in 9th first! Now you can say that, if there is no planet in Lagna and Kendra (10-7-4) then look for planets in 9th or 5th. If there is a planet in 9th then the prasna is related to that. If 9th is vacant and if there is a planet in 5th then the prasna is related to that. If there is no planets in Lagna, Kendra and Trikona, then what to do? :) Then there is no point in that prasna, since the person is in an utterly problematic unsolvable situation, and even the guidance by the astrologer would be of no use to him. :) But still, there also you can look for the bad placement of Lagna lord first. I think at least for some the method is clear by now. Somebody can come forward with examples, to check how much it becomes true in his own experience. Of course, the secret is not complete. There exists 1 more method (as told earlier, from Varaha Hora) that is used for the same purpose 36 (i.e. Locating the underlying problem that caused the qurent to approach the astrologer). The learned astrologers use this method (the method described earlier), and the one given in Varaha hora together, and considering the indications supplied by both of them come to a conclusion. I will explain the other method in another mail. Till then, let us experiment with this method. Method -2 In Prasnamarga it is said that “if a person with true inquisitiveness is approaching an astrologer, then the astrologer should tell him about problem he is facing and should suggest the appropriate solution”. But how? Let us see, how the traditional astrologer are approaching this question, by making use of a Varaha Hora sloka. Which sloka is that? I will quote it for you. “Kandaka Kendra Chatushtaya samjcha Saptama Lagna Chaturdha Khabhanam Teshu yedheshu hithabhi baladya Keeta narambu chara pasavascha” Meaning, Kandaka, Kendra, Chatushtaya are respectively names for 7th,1st and 4th Houses. Of them Reptail signs, Human signs and Water signs, and quadruped sign are strong in order. i.e. In 7th House = Reptail Sign is strong. In 1st House = Human Sign is strong. In 4th House = Water Sign is strong. In 10th House = quadruped (four footed animal) sign is strong. This seems to be simple. What secret is there? How can it help us in understanding the thought of the qurent? Wait...Wait..I will explain. Think that the presna Arudha (or Lagna) at the time of query was Aries. Now look is the 7th house a reptile sign (Sc and Cn)? No. Is the 1st hose a Human sign? No. Is the 4th House (Cn) a water sign? Yes! Is the 10th House a quadruped sign? well, yes/no, it is Cp, partially water sign and partially quadruped sign. OK. Thus is means that the 4th house (the born home/native_place of the qurent where his mother, father, brothers, sisters and relative are present) is (at the time of prasna) a a very strong influence and controlling force in that persons life. But what is the natural tendency of the Lagna? Lagna (In this case, Aries) is a quadruped sign, which should naturally gets its strength if placed in 10th!! That means the natural tendency of the person is to concentrate and immerse himself in work! He is more interested in work, and don’t like any disturbances in that, but the family is holding him back!! Yes, with the fact alone that Aries is the ascent, you are able to reach this much! Now, whether this influence +ve or negative? Whether his actual problem is the family (4th house) or the job (10th house)? To know this look at the chart again to see the placement of 4th lord and 10th lord, and also see how strong is Lagna/Lagna lord? 1) If 4th lord is badly placed then the bad influence or condition of the family/relatives is causing the trouble. 2) If the 10th lord is badly placed then the loss of expected success / failures / problems in job is causing the trouble. 3) If the Lagna is strong and lagna lord is well placed (they indicate the qurent himself) then the qurent is able and the problem is just with the situation. If not the inability (financial or otherwise) of the qurent is also causing the situation to become worse! Does it mean that all prasna indicates bad things only? No! It is not like that. When presna Aruda (or Lagna) is Aries and if there is no problem with 4th and if there is a well placed planet in 10th then the query is related to 10th, about a positive subject, such as a promotion in job or the like! Similarly if there is no problem with 10th and if there is a well placed planet in 4th (e.g Mo) then he is thinking of constructing a new house or the like for sure!! (i.e. something that the 4th house and the planet placed in it signify) 37 Yes, I have explained the example situation by taking Aries as Lagna (at the time of query). Now if Taurus is Lagna/Arudha at the time of query, then what? Yes you know the answer. ;) The sign “that becomes strong” is the 7th house, since it is a retail sign. (Retail signs are strong in 7th) - So the query could be about marriage or a marital problem. The “that should become strong” (or the natural tendency of the Taurus lagna) is 10th house. (Taurus in a quadruped sign) - so he should better concentrate on work. Does he do so? or is it causing the current problem? Locate what the qurent wants to ask about (could be either good or bad situations) basing your thinking on these lines. It is easy to locate - combined with the additional clues the planetary placement gives us!! I think atleast to some of us the idea is clear by now. The traditional astrologers try to logically locate the prime problem/thought of the qurent by using both these principles. If both of them leads them to the same conclusion, then usually they won’t allow the qurent to speak, and tell his problem on his face, and thus catching him in absolute surprise!! Once this happens then it becomes a very easy task for the astrologer since, after that what ever he says would be accepted by the qurent by not even without a question! The good astrologers take it as a positive tool to give good guidance and counseling to the qurent and direct him in the right path. Bad astrologers - humm....You know what that do.... Yes, that is why it is said that astrology is a double edged sward. It can be used to guide the qurent to the right path, or to make him believe and first and then destroy him/cheat him totally, by giving wrong guidance! Yes, I agree, all knowledge is similar - good in the hands of good people, and bad in the hands of bad people. Ok. That were some side thoughts - back to astrology. Experiment with the above principle. Lesson to remember : Some slokas that seems simple hides ample secrets within!! And it demands hard efforts form the part of us to bring them out. I would just like to add some more info. About the sloka taken from Varaha hora. That concept of Human sign becoming strong in Lagna, Water sign in 4th, Retail sign in 7th and Quadruped sign in 10th is not a new idea introduced by Mihira. The Garga Hora sloka stating the same is also available. Garga was a famous sage of the Jaina Parampara, and might have lived in the time of Skanda himself, since may ideas mentioned by Skanda by ‘others’, found its place in Garga Hora. Skanda is the author of first book on astrology, known as Skanda hora (many slokas of which is still available). Skanda hora is also called Jyotishmati Upanishad. Most of the Rishi horas like Brihat Prajapatya, Vasishta Hora, Kousika Hora, Sounaka Hora etc are based on Skanda Hora. All these texts are already lost though many slokas and references about these texts are available in many medieval astrological classics. Varaha Mihira might have collected the above mentioned idea, possibly from Garga or Skanda. The Garga kula provided many texts and gurus (Garga, Gargi, Gargya, Rishiputra etc), like the Arsha stream (Skanda, Daksha, Vasishta, Viswamitra, Sounaka etc) that followed the ideas put forward by Skanda. Yes, it is a mysterious literary history, that needs a lot of study and data collection. Just supplying some side thoughts. Point to remember: 1) The “Hora Kendr Trikona “ theory finds its authenticity in Vasishta Hora. 2) The “Kandaka Kendra” tehory finds its authenticity in Garga Hora. Curious! Isn’t it?! ;) Dear Souvik ji, Depend on your clear understanding, since the list given by various texts may vary slightly. ;) I won’t talk much about the conflicts in texts, but will explain how to depend on your clear understanding of the symbolic shapes ascribed to signs. 38 Let us consider the (imaginary) shape that is ascribed to each signs: 1) Aries : The Sanskrit word is ‘Mesha’, meaning Ram (uncastrated male sheep). As you know it is a four footed animal. so, Aries is a quadruped sign. 2) Taurus : The Sanskrit word is ‘Vrishabha’, meaning Ox. Yes, it is also a quadruped and thus Taurus a quadruped sign. 3) Gemini : The Sanskrit word is ‘Midhuna’, meaning couple (A Male and A Female standing together). So it is clear that it is a Biped human sign. (But this sign also represents many beings with 2 legs, Biped, such as chicken etc as well, since the synonym ‘Jootuma’, of Gemini represents chicken, or many other 2 legged birds that mingle with humans. Remember it is the same situation with all the other signs as well. Each sign is significator of many living beings. I am not going into it, since I want to limit this mail to the subject under discussion) 4) Cancer: The Sanskrit word is ‘Karkata’, meaning crab (yes, thecrab that lives in water). Here a confusion popes up. The Nakshatra ‘Aslesha’ represents snake, the Nakshatra Pushyami has got the other name ‘bee hive’. Many saints have told us that we can think about all the non-poisonous reptiles with cancer sign. So in short it is a reptile sign. Actually the word used by saints is ‘Sareesripa’, any thing that move with it belly, such as snake, chameleon et. (This sign could represent not only reptiles but also bees, crabs, fish, butterflies etc as well) To represent such beings only 2 signs are used, Sc and Cn, and so this is a reptile sign for sure. But as you know the crab lives in water, and the sign itself represent, a pure water (not salty water) pond, and therefore it is a water sign as well. So cancer could be a reptile sign or a watery sign! And so the confusion. 5) Leo : The Sanskrit word is ‘Simha’, meaning Lion. Yes, for sure it is a quadruped sign. 6) Virgo : The Sanskrit word is ‘Kanya’, meaning virgin lady. Yes, it is a Biped (human sign) for sure. It is symbolically depicted that this lady is traveling in a boat through a river with plant in one hand and fire in other. So there could arise a confusion that it is a water sign as well. But there is not much support for this argument, as far as the main classification is concerned. Yes, the presence of water becomes important, if you are thinking about the availability of water, with the use of prasan or the like, otherwise we can discard it, and it is a human sign for sure. 7) Libra: The Sanskrit word is ‘Tula’, meaning balance. The symbolic pictorial representation of the sign is of a man with a balance (the measuring instrument) in his hands, sitting is a street side market, selling something. So for sure it is a human sign. 8) Scorpio : The Sanskrit word is ‘Vrischika’, meaning Scorpion itself. The sign has got other names such as Snake, bee hive etc as well. As stated earlier it is one of the 2 ‘Sareesripa’ signs, any thing that move with it belly, so for sure it is a Reptile sign. It represents anything that is poisonous and deadly. 9) Sagittarius : The Sanskrit name is ‘Dhanu’, meaning bow. It is symbolically represented as a kingly warrior with bows and arrows, but the portion below hip of that person is horse like! So here also there is little amount of confusion. It is said that, the 1st half of Sagittarius is quadruped and the remaining half human. 10) Capricorn : The Sanskrit name is ‘Makara’, meaning crocodile as well as big fish (like shark). The symbolic representation of the sign is half crocodile like and the remaining half dear like! So here also confusion exists. But yes, the first half of Capricorn could be considered as water sign and the remaining half Quadruped sign. 11) Aquarius : The Sanskrit name is ‘Kumbha’ meaning pot. The symbolic representation is, a man with a pot in his hand going in search of water. So it is for sure a human sign. But the presence of Pot in the symbolic representation of the sign makes someone think that it is a water sign as well, which is false, since the pot is empty. 39 12) Pisces : The Sanskrit name is ‘Jhasha’, meaning fish. Yes, fish that lives in salt water. The sign itself represents the sea. So it is watery sign for sure. This I think makes the subject clear. Due to this situation, it is better to depend on the symbolic representation, and your own clear understanding of that symbolic representation, to classify the signs, than depending on some slokas without thinking. If you just try to depend on slokas, you will find slokas, that seems to be contradicting each other in the first look. But when you understand the base of this naming you will see that there is no conflict/contradiction between the statements of Saints/Acharyas. :) There are 2 related points that also should be explained. Signs are Symbolic The shape ascribed to the signs are symbolic. The saints wanted those signs to indicate several significance for which the sign stands for and that is why that particular symbol/shape is ascribed to that sign. I will explain. For example take Libra. The symbol is of a man sitting with a balance in his hand weighing something, in a market place. So for sure, Libra represents a town, humans, measuring instruments, food that is eatable for humans, road, crowd, logically correct arguments, interest in maths, business men, learned, luxury, love for good life etc etc. See how clear it is! The same is the situation with other symbols. Significance and its classification Significance are assigned only to - 1) Signs 2) Nakshatras 3) Houses 4) Planets What can they signify? Each of them can represent ‘any thing’ present in the world!! Or in other words, each of them represents, ‘every thing’ present in the world! Try to classify them yourself. For example a sign could represent1) Humans (classify them based on relationship/cast/job/gender etc) 2) Plants (classify them based on water/land/creeper/tree etc) 3) Animals (classify them based on carnivores /herbivores/wild etc) 3) Non living things (classify them based on metal/nonmetal/liquid/gas etc) Yes, you could extend this list. ;) This same rule for classification of significance for sign applies to Nakshatras, Houses and Plants as well. But the problem is that, due to the vastness this list and the subject you can not find proper lists in classics, but only simple directions. The slokas are just pointers, that directs you, the way through which you would have to exercise on your own thinking ability. :) Don’t ask me as well, I too don’t have a well classified elaborate list, which makes everything clear and lists out everything in the world. ;) We are waiting for better lists on all these from you. ;) “Ohm Sahanavavtu….Sahanou bhunaktu…Saha veeryam karavavahai……………” Bhava Nasakaro Jeeva? Dear RK ji and Pandit ji, ==> The ‘bhaavanashaaya thing’ do you for one really apply in your phalaadesha? Tell me. <== I would joyously like to quote your line – ==> Let’s go about it baby step by baby step. <== Because, before I state anything about my own stands, I should clarify what the classics say, and also there is a prior example of Ju in 7th (bhavanasakara or not ?) as provided by panditji. :) Brihat Jatakam states – 40 “Lagnal Putra kalatrabhe subhapati prapteadhavalokite chadradwa yedi sampadasti hi tayo” and Rishi horas) at work here or something else? Should we consider and correlate “Bhava vridhikaro Sani” along with it or not? One of the meanings of this sloka bit is that, if the 5th and 7th from Lagna is aspected (Drishti) or conjoined by Ju then children and wife (vridhi of 5th and 7th house) results. The same can be considered from Moon sign as well. From this sloka it is evident that Mihira is against the “Karako bhavanasaka” concept. Ju is significator of 5th house and Mihira says that if Ju is in 5th house then for sure children will result. Also remember that while speaking about the placement of Ve in 7th Mihira says “priya kalahostagethe suratepsu” meaning an increase (vridhi) in sexual urge. My guru says that Ju in 5th or Ve in 7th is like an over voltage bulb. :) I have seen horoscope with Ju in 5th. Usually that native would be very bright with many capabilities (Ju is significator of intelligence) but in later stages of life (even by half way through life) they behave almost like lunatics! Their mind become too unstable! Presnamarga give the same combination to judge lunatics!!! It is really over voltage causing damage to the bulb! :) In essence every karaka amplifies the results the Bhava can produce May be, It would be right to say “Karako Bhava vridhikara”, but may be at the end if the native can not stand it (due to his inner strength), the fuse of the bulb burns!! Like Mihira I would like to stand against the “Bhava nasakaro” concept at the same time accepting the slokas like the one given in texts like Prasanmarga in the light of the advice given by my guru. :) Study: • Ju in 7th cause an increase in sexual urge and beauty of the Let us take the example provided by Panditji and try to understand it in the light of the above knowledge and the words of Rishis. Yap, we are going into the details. :) Problem: • Ju in 7th in its own house or exaltation should give many wives or increase in sexual urge. • But is it seen that they are satisfied with only one wife! Is it that “Bhava nasakaro jeeva” concept (not supported by Mihira native. How can I say that?! Because “Pitro gunadhiko jeeve saptame suhrdanvita rati geeta priyaH khalvadanaH kalahavargitaH” Says Hora Pradeepam. Meaning, If Ju is in 7th he would have more good talents than his father, many friends, would like sex and music, love to travel, won’t like to quarrel with any. Look at the statement “rati geeta priyaH” (would like sex and music) in this sloka. Now let us see what Garga hora says about the placement of Ju in 7th – “Gauri suroopam sphuta pankajakshim sitaH subharkshe subhadrishtiyuktaH chirayusham Bhagyayutam naram cha kuryad gurur darpakavasavasi” Meaning, If Ju is in 7th placed in good sign with the benefic aspects then, his wife would be young, beautiful, with beautiful eyes, fair skin. If Ju is in 7th then he would have longevity, luck, and he would be handsome like Kamadeva (the god of sex). Look at the statement “darpakavasavasi” (handsome with good sex urge like the god of sex) in this sloka. From the above due to “Dwi tri samvada bhaval” (since 2 or 3 arguments indicate the same) I conclude that Ju in 7th cause an increase in sexual urge of the native. • If 7th lord is in its own house then the native would be good natured and handsome and will have many abilities. The following two statements substantiate this – 41 “Saptamage saptamape paramayuH preetivatsalaH purushaH Nirmala seela sametastejaswee jayate satatam” Says Vridha Yavana. Meaning, If the 7th lord is in 7th house then the native would have longevity, compaction, good nature, smartness and brightness. This applies to Ju in 7th in its own house as well, as said by Kasyapa Rishi - “Ati guna Jurou jaya dunastite” Says Kasyapa Hora. Meaning, if Ju is in its own house in 7th then, he would have many capabilities (and would be handsome). • But alas! Even though the native have good sexual urge and handsome, women won’t show much interest in him! Why?! But before answering that question, let understand who says so. :) Look at the following sloka from the text Chamatkara Chintamani – “Matistasya bahwee vibhootischa bahwee Rathirvai bhavad bhaminee nama bahwee gurur garva kridyasya jamitra bhave saprindadhikoakhanda kandarpa eva” Meaning, if Ju is in 7th he would be intelligent, will live a good (luxurious) life, but women will not show much interest in him. He would be handsome (and would have good sex urge) like Kamdeva, and would be proud of his own abilities and beuty. He will have many relatives and friends born of his own clan and would be powerful because of this. Just look at the words “Rathirvai bhavad bhaminee nama bahwee” (women will not show much interest in him, and there fore he won’t have much girl friends and much sexual life) and “akhanda kandarpa eva” (He would be handsome and would have good sex urge like the god of sex). Is it not interesting?! This is specially true if Ju is in its own house in Sg or Pi. Ok. Now I think it is time to answer the question, why ladies are not showing much interested in such a personality with good con- tacts, beauty and sexual urge. Even if the ladies are not showing much interest in him, if he is ready to execute his power and abilities, it would be very very easy for him to get or seduce women! Why he is not doing it? Yap, you guessed it, due to his very own nature! :) He is guru, he is respectable, then how can he do that?! Women are not showing interest in him due to the very fact that he is respectable and serene. Don’t you believe me? Let us look at the predictions given for Ju in Cn (exaltation sign of Ju), Sg (own house of Ju) and Pi (own house of Ju). If Ju is in Cn, then “Vidvan suroopa dehaH prajchaH priya dharma swabhavascha sumahalbalo yesaswi prabhuta dhanyakara dhanesaH satya Samadhi sametaH stiratmajo lokasalkritaH khayataH nripatir jeeve sasibhe visishta karma suhrijjatanurataH” Says Saravali. Meaning, if Ju is in Cn then, the native would be knowledgeable, intelligent, powerful, famous, with good wealth, will stand for truth, will be interested in meditation, stable mind, good children, will do good for the world and would be famous due to that, will live/behave like a king, will follow good deeds, and will have many friends and relatives. Dear women, he is highly respectable, and it is better not to go near him seeking sex!! Even if he want to play with you, he won’t violate the etiquette!! It seems that he is not going to fall for you (women really like that), then why fall for him. ;) Probably not! It is better not to go after him seeking sex, and it seems that he won’t come after you as well, though he may like to enjoy high grade sex with his wife. ;) If Ju is in Sg then – Acharyo vrata deeksha yejchadeenamsu samstitarthascha Data suhril swapakshaH priyoparasrutadi rataH Mandaliko mantri va dhanurdharasthe bhavet sada jeeve Nana desa nivasee vivikta teerthayatana budhiH” Says Saravali. Meaning, if Ju is in Sg then, the native would be 42 interested in doing Vrata, Yaga, Mantra worship etc. He will advice to do such thing to others (common people) as well. He will acquire much wealth, will be kind and companionate, helping relatives and friends, will be a member of committees or social organizations. He will visit many countries, many sacred places and sacred buildings like temples. Hay man! He is a guru and adviser! It is better to consult him asking for suggestions. Dear women will you dare to make him fall in immoral sex with you?! Or will he like to do so? Probably not! It is better not to go after him seeking sex, and it seems that he won’t come after you as well. ;) If Ju is in Pi then – “Vedartha sastra vetta suhridam poojyassatam cha nripaneta slakhyassadhano adhrisho hyaheena darpasthirambhaH rajchassuneeti siksha vyavahara rana prayoga vetta cha khyataH prasanta cheshata sthirasatwayutascha ménage geeve” Says Saravali. Meaing, if Ju is in Pi then, the native would be very knowledgeable in the etymology meaning of Vedic texts (he would be very knowledgeable and interested in grammar and linguistics), respected by friends, a person with leadership quality, perfect (interested in perfection in every field), egotic, will stick to his aim in all his endeavors, will have good knowledge about law-training- teaching etc, will have good understanding about the use of weapons, famous, steady and quit mind, stable, he is not worried about what may come and keeps the stability of mind both in hardships and happiness. Dear women, he is too respectable, steady, able and seems dangerous with his contacts and abilities – it is better to keep away from him! With that much interest in ethics do you think he will come after you, even if there is a huge amount of sex urge in him! Impossible, better to stay away from him and for sure he is not going to hurt you. ;) See how the situation turns out to be! Ju is not destroying anything! Ju is not destroying the normal tendencies of the 7th house, but only enriches it! But when the natural tendencies of Ju takes hold, and strengthens the inner nature of the individual, then some results like many wives becomes almost an impossibility. But we should know that if willing for a person with such a placement of Ju in 7th it is very easy to get 2 or more wives or many sexual relations. That means the result is there – but it becomes yapya (hidden/suppressed) due to the very nature of the native. Or due to the very nature Ju in 7th (in exaltation or own house) imparts to the native. It is very clear that the “Karaka bhavanasaya” short cut is not at all necessary to explain or understand the situation. That is all about Ju, “Bhava vridhikaro Sani” is another beautiful story. I will tell about it and will explain why it is irrelevant in the context of ancient classics in another mail. P.S.1) Dear RK ji, I think my answer is clear by now. I don’t use the “Bhava vridhi karo” or “Bhava nasakaro” `thing’. It is better to go the straight but long way, than to take shortcuts that which can not be applied in a generalized manner. If anyone try to do so, he/she will end up standing against the classics, in many situations. 2) Don’t ask me to explain how and why “karako bahava….” Rule does not apply to each and every Bhava. That will make me type many such long mails, which I don’t want to do. Instead taking the similar path you can explore and understand why it is invalid for each of the situations pointed out. 3) By the way what is the name of the father of Vaidyanadha suri? I don’t have that info. How to predict with Navamsa Navamsa is the 9th Varga. It is 1/9 th of a sign, and that is why the name Navamsa. Nava = 9 Amsa = Division. Navamsa = 1 division out of 9 divi- 43 sions. Navamsa longitude = R x 9 Navamsa prediction is also based on the 7-fold system [I] Stana (Place) Saravali says – “Now I will say the lagna navamsa phala for signs starting from Aries. With lagna navamsa we should know the color, shape and lakshana (nature of the native & significance of the amsa). The same method could be applied to Chandra navamsa and the navamsa of all other planets” This sloka indicates that 1) Color (based on navamsa sign and navamsa lord) 2) Shape (Swaroopa and geography) 3) Nature (character attributes of the native) 4) significance assigned to the navamsa Are the basic 4 methods used to extract the stana phala. Let us discuss the Shape (Swaroopa concept in detail). This is one of the basic rule to be followed in prediction based on navamsa. As said earlier, to determine the stana phala for each navamsa several methods are used. One of them is assigning Swaroopa. This has 2 variations. i) Navamsa Swaroopa (assigning imaginary shape to the navamsa) Saravali says – “The person born in the first navamsa of Aries will have a face similar to ram, small nose, short arms, rough sound, half closed eyes, a slim body without handicaps” Saravali assumes/assigns such imaginary shape to the individuals born in all navamsas. ii) Navamsa Swaroopa based on navamsa number This is another method of assigning navamsa Swaroopa. Here imaginary shape is assigned to individuals born in different navamsa of each rasi based on the navamsa number with in that sign. For ex- ample, if a person is born in the first navamsa of any sign, then he would be – “stingy, not bold enough in taking decisions, sinner, wants to hurt others” says shadvarga phala prakash. [II] Bhava (House) The house (from natal lagna) in which the navamsa falls. For example if the amsa of the 2nd lord is in 12th, assets and bank balance etc can be predicted. Also if we want to speak about expense then in which items the money would be spend would be indicated by the sign in which navamsa falls and the lord of it. [III] Graha (Planet) The combination (uti) of planet is considered in navamsa as well. For example think that Ma is in the 5th navamsa of Aries (which falls in Leo) and Mo is in the 8th Navamsa of Virgo (which falls in Leo). Also think that Ju is in Leo. Then there is a Ma-Mo combination in Leo in navamsa. Normal prediction (considering the mixing of significance) given for Ma-Mo combination can be given here as well. But no predictions considering Ju-Ma or Ju-Mo should be given, since Ju is in sign and others are in navamsa. [IV] Stana-Graha (Place-planet) The traditional astrologers use the “Asraya rasi phala (prediction for placement of planets)” told for planets in natal chart in navamsa as well. [No. Don’t think of navamsa chart. I am speaking about navamsa super imposed on natal chart and not about navamsa chart] But there are 2 other cute methods for place-planet prediction using navamsa. i) Considering the House lord (House = Sign) Saravali says “Without considering the lordship of houses, we can not move even a single step forward in prediction”. Shadvarga phalaprekash says – “If the navamsa of Su is in the house of Su itself then, he would be wealthy and live a good life. But he would like quarrelling with others, taking the wrong methods and approaches and the like. He will have many diseases as well”. Similarly prediction 44 for all the other planets are also given. ii) Navamsaka sign based prediction Sphujidwaja hora says – “Navamsaka in Aries sign (any planet placed in navamsa allotted for Aries sign) indicates, land, gold etc if Ma is strong. Navamsaka in Tarus sign indicates, quadrupeds, women, wealthy people etc”. For example, in a presena if Su navamsaka is in Aries, then that sun could indicate gold, if the lagna lord is Su then the presna itself could be about gold. In which sign that sun is placed is not important here. See the difference in use of the these words as wellNavamsa = 1/9th of a sign Navamsaka = to which sign that 1/9th part is allotted. (in which sign that 1/9th part falls). If Su is in Aries 9 deg, then Su in Aries 3rd Navamsa and the Navamsaka falls in Gemini. So Navamsa is Aries 3rd Navamsa and Navamsaka is Gemini. These words are at times used almost in a similar fashion as well. So take those words as having almost same meaning, but don’t get confused. While making Place-Planet predictions with Navamsa, remember that the basic significance o the planets and signs remains the same. The only extra thing being that it is looked though a new dimension. Mihira also speaks about the Placeplanet based prediction with navamsa. For example, in Viyoni Janma chapter of Brihat Jataka, he says – “If the lagnamsaka is strong then the color of that sign would be the sign of the animal born at that time” Remember that the word lagnamsaka indicates the sign in which lagnamsa falls. Taking another example from Varaha hora, let us think of the sloka “Ojarkshe purushamsakeshu…”. Mihira says “If Lagna, Su, Moon, Ju and there amsakas falls in male signs then it would be a male birth”. Here Male/Female variation of sign is considered. So it is a place-planet prediction. See to the fact that Mihira is speaking about the Male/Female variation of 8 signs. They are – • The sign in which lagna is posited. • The sign in which Su is posited • The sign in which Mo is posited • The sign in which Ju is posited • The sign in which the lagna navamsa falls (Lagna navamsa sign = Lagnamsaka) • The sign in which the Su navamsa falls (Su navamsa sign = Suryamsaka) • The sign in which the Mo navamsa falls (Mo navamsa sign = Chandramsaka) • The sign in which the Ju navamsa falls (Ju navamsa sign = Gurvamsaka) I started with Place-Planet prediction given for navamsa and now the path, seems to turn may be because of some discussions happening in this forum at this time, so I stop here. ;) By the way there is a whole chapter (Chapter 17) allotted to navamsa based place-planet prediction, in Varaha hora. Have a look at it. [V] Bhava-Graha (House-Planet) Predictions are given considering the Navamsaka house (starting from natal lagna) in the horoscope. For example, Mihira says – “Koujamsesthe Sourina vyadhi yoni”, meaning if the navamsa of Ma falls in 7th (from natal lagna) then she will have some disease related to sexual organs”. Brihal prajapatyam says – Aste jeevamsake tatra bhargavena nireekshite Ya jata tam vijaneehi yoni manojchakanwitam Meaning, “if the navamsa of Ju falls in 7th from natal lagna and the Drishti of Ve falls in 7th then she will have beautiful hip and sexual organs” Spot the fact that, since 7th house and planets are considered it is a House-Planet prediction. [VI] Stana-Bhava (Place-House) Since house is always counted from natal lagna this system is not 45 much important in navamsa based prediction. But we can locate some other cute uses of this. Remember that exaltation, debilitation etc is also related to place. (Stana) Look at this sloka from Prasnamarga – Daresasya navamsese moodhe neechari bhagake Papandare papa drishte kalatrantarabhag bhavel Meaning, if the lord of the sign in which the navamsa of the 7th lord falls is combusted, debilitated, in enemy sign, between malefics or aspected (drishti) by malefics then, the native will have more than one wife. For example, think that Virgo is Lagna and the navamsa of the 7th lord Ju Leo. Then if Su (lord of leo) is in Libra, he will have more than one wife. Here Ju = Daresa (7th lord) 2nd navamsa of Pi = Daresasya navamsa (Thus the Ju Navamsaka is Leo) Su = Daresasya navamsesa (navamsa lord for Ju) Notice that, in this sloka, exaltation, debilitation etc (and thus Place) and 7th house (and thus House) is considered and also that the prediction is based on Navamsa. But such slokas are rare and is mostly based on things like exaltation-debilitation (Place), Kendra-trikona (House) etc. [VII] Stana-Bhava-Graha (Place-House-Planet) Look at the Varaha Hora sloka “Vridho MoorkhaH Sooryajarkshamsake va” Meaning, “if the 7th house is Cp or Aq and if the navamsa of Sa falls in that sign, then she will get an aged person with not much education as husband”. For example, if Lagna is Cn and the navamsa of Sa falls in Cp then her husband would be an aged person. Notice that here – Cn (Place), 7th house (House) and Sa (Planet) are considered. Also notice that it is a navamsa based prediction. I think this explanation might have cleared the doubt – “how to predict with navamsa” at least to a certain extend. Always remember that it is the 7-fold prediction system that is used both in natal chart and in Vargas (amsas). • The vargas (amsas) only modify the results shown by the natal chart. • Drishti is not considered in Vargas (amsas). This message is becoming too long and I have already covered the 7-fold system. So I stop here. P.S. : Take an example chart and elaborate on the same. Vasya Signs As per astrological classics, for: Aries - Leo and Scorpio Taurus - Cancer and Libra Gemini - Virgo Cancer - Scorpio and Sagittarius Leo - Libra Virgo - Gemini and Pisces Libra - Virgo and Capricorn Scorpio - Cancer Sagittarius - Pisces Capricorn - Aquarius and Aries Aquarius - Aries Pisces - Capricorn are Vasya signs. What is the logic behind this concept? Let us try to understand. For Aries, Leo and Scorpio are Vasya Signs. Why? Leo - the lord of Leo gets exalted in Aries. Scorpio - Aries and Scorpio are ruled by the same planet. 46 Rule : (1) If any other planet gets exalted in the sign then the sign ruled by that planet could be a Vasya sign. Rule : (2) If the lord of 2 signs are the same, the second sign could be a Vasya sign for the first and vice-versa. For Taurus, Libra and Cancer are Vasya signs. Why? Cancer - Rule (1) applies here. Lord of Cancer Moon is exalted in Taurus. Libra - Rule (1) applies here. Taurus and Libra are ruled by the same planet Ve. For Gemini, Virgo is Vasya sign. Why? Virgo - Rule (2) applies here. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the same planet. For Cancer, Scorpio and Sagittarius are Vasya signs. Why? Scorpio - Is there any connection? The lord of Cancer gets debilitated in Scorpio!! Both Cancer and Scorpio are signs that represent reptiles - i.e. Sareesripa signs. The lord of Scorpio gets debilitated in Cancer. So there is a very strong connection between the two signs. Rule : (3) The sign in which the lord of the first considered sign gets debilitated could be a Vasya sign. (Here Mo gets debilitated in Scorpio) Sagittarius - Rule (1) applies here. The lord of Sagittarius gets exalted in Cancer. For Leo, Libra is Vasya sign. Why? Lira - Rule (3) applies here. Lord of Leo Sun gets debilitated in Leo. For Virgo, Gemini and Pisces are Vasya Signs. Why? Gemini - Rule (2) applies. Gemini and Virgo are ruled by the same planet Me. Pisces - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Virgo Me gets debilitated in Piaces. For Libra, Virgo and Capricorn are Vasya signs. Why? Virgo - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Libra gets debilitated in Virgo. Capricorn - Rule (1) applies. Lord of Capricorn Sa gets exalted in Libra. For Scorpio, Cancer is the Vasya sign. Why? Cancer - Rule (3) applies. Lord of Scorpio Ma gets debilitated in Cancer. For Sagittarius, Pisces is Vasya sign. Why? Pisces - Rule (2) applies. Sagittarius and Pisces are ruled by the same planet Ju. For Capricorn, Aquarius and Aries is Vasya sign. Why? Aquarius - Rule (2) applies. Capricorn and Aquarius are ruled by the same planet Sa. Aries - Rule (1) applies. The lord of Aries gets exalted in Capricorn. For Aquarius, Aries is Vasya sign. Why? Aquarius - Rule (3) applies. The lord of Aquarius gets debilitated in Aries. Fro Pisces, Sagittarius is the Vasya sign. Why? Sagittarius - Rule (2) applies. Pisces and Sagittarius are ruled by the same planet. Lesson to remember: The sages never tell a thing without reason and Logic!! We just need to search and find it out!! Vasya means, mutual attraction. The classics talk about signs which have some kind of mutual attraction. Put in other words, the people born in Vasya signs (Asc or Moon sign)of each other gets attracted to each other, either sexual attraction or friendship. Because of this Vasya relation between the Lagna of the girl and boy. Vasya between the Moon signs of girl and boy are considered. This concept is normally used while horoscope matching for marriage. Vasya primarily indi- 47 cates the attraction we feel towards a person, just by seeing him/her, even before knowing his/her abilities and qualities. It is the inherent quality of the horoscope and the sign in which the person is born is causing this attraction. The concept of Vasya (Mutual attraction) can also be used: 1) In Marriage compatibility (This is the traditional use) 2) In selecting your business partner. 3) In selecting your girl friend. 4) In selecting friends etc Of course we are not selecting friends/business_partners/ girl_friends etc after horoscope matching. But if we have some real relations, we can check the horoscope to verify that, whether this principle of Vasya is there at work causing the bond, and helping us to strengthen the relation. I hope, though simple, having this sound and useful concept in our wallet of astrological knowledge, would be useful also in understanding the importance the great seers gave to the concept of Exaltation and Debilitation. Vasya attraction between the Lagna signs or Moon signs is one of the criterion for determining the mutual attraction between two individuals. It is NOT the lone criterion for determining the same! The are other systems that are used for the same purpose such as the one known as “Rana_Ranee Bhava” compatibility in marriage compatibility, which also speak about the plancement of Lagna lord, 7th lord, Lagna and Moon Navamsa etc. There is another system called “Rasi vasyam” to have a primary understanding about the sextual attaction (and compatibility) between people born on different signs. As you know there are some Nakshatra based rules as well to do the same. It is due to the existance of these many authentic rules, which gives prime importance to different factors that, we consider all of them in the marriage compatibility (along with other rules to validate the future incidents in life) and come to a conclusion almost in a statistical manner!! Yes, I agree, it is not the statistics but the understanding of the astrologer about the future events in store for the couple is more important. But the well founded rules like Vasya really needs consideration, and should be appreciated. :) The period of influence for any YOGA in horoscope is determined by DASA and supporting GOCHARA. YOGA could be 1) Sign based, 2) Bhava based, 3) Planet based, 4) Sign-Bhava based, 5) Sign-Planet based, 6) Bhava-Planet based, or 7)Sign-Bhava-Planet based. You can rephrace the above terminology based on Nakshatra as well. But the Vasya I told is not a YOGA! It is more related to the basic nature of the sign itself. I will elaborate little further: Point -1 The nature of a sign is determined based on divisions such as: 1) Kalapurusha (1 fold) 2) The Male-Female classification (2 fold) 3) Chara-Stira-Ubhaya, Srishti-Stiti-Samhara etc (3 fold) 4) Satya-Dwapara-Treta-Kali Yogadi etc (4 fold) 5) Earth-Water-Fire-Air-Sky (Pancha bhootadi)etc (5 fold) etc. Point -2 The nature of the sign is further clarified based on the following or similar concepts which fundamentally depends on the underlying concepts noted as point -1. They are: 1) Rasyadhipatya 2) Exaltation-Debilitation 3) Human-Watery-Reptail-Quadrapad etc Point -3 The concepts that are based on concepts noted under point 1 or point 2 or similar ones. 1) Rasi Vasya and RasiBhava vasya 2) Preeti signs etc etc. Actually concepts noted under points 2 and 3, which are fundamentally based on the primary concepts or in turn on the secondary 48 concepts needs to be pondered more, logically, so as to bringout the essential logic used by Rishis in designing them. Point -4 All of these are not YOGAS since the YOGA concept came into existance only in the horoscope. But here (in Vasya etc) we are actually speaking about the nature of the sign, rather than the horoscope itself!! I think the point is clear at least to an extend, and expects more inputs from the leaned members. Marriage compatibility and Vasya Dear Arjun ji, Thanks for the good mail. :) I highly appreciate those sincere thoughts. I feel that it is unsystematic (i.e. non-classified) view of the concepts presented, is causing us the trouble in understanding the (actually well classified!!) ideas put forward by saints and acharyas. I will clarify:Let us approach the first confusion encountered by any one approaching and trying to use marriage compatibility. You stated it nicely. > dinam, ganam, mahendram, dheergham, yoni, rasi, rasyadhipati, > vasyam, rajju, vedha or dosham, gothram, nakshatram, pakshi, > bhootam and others are all listed for measuring each parameter of > compatibility required in any relation between two individuals. to > add to these, manglik dosham, kaalasarpa dosham, grahana dosham, > besides various modern man researched or invented doshams are all > there. unfortunately, the various measuring tools mentioned in > various medieval classics have some inherent contradictions. I agree. :) It would be the prime view that would be felt by any sincere person approching marriage compatibility. But the point is thatThe Acharyas have classified compatibility considerations stated above by you (dinam, ganam etc..) as (“Agoodha Goodha Bhedena dwidha hi khadana gunai”): I. Agoodha (Non-hidden) marriage compatibility considerations Eg: Rasi, Rasyadhipa, Vasya, Gana, Mahendra, Yoni, etc...... II. Goodha (Hidden) marriage compatibility considerations Eg: Drishti (Liking), Mana (Love), Deha (Health and Body), VidyaVinaya (Education), Stanabhijatya (Status&Position), Vaya (Age) etc Now the Non-hidden (Agoodha) marriage compatibility considerations are again classified into four. 1) Sign Based Eg: Rasi, Rasi-vasya, Rasi-Yoni, Rasi-Bhoota, Rasi-Varna etc 2) Sign-lord Based Eg: Rasyadhipa, Rasi-bhava vasya (The logic of which I have described earlier in this forum) etc 3)Star Based Eg: Gana, Dina, Mahendra, Strideerkha, Nakshatra-Yoni etc. 4) Star related (Not important) Eg: Nakshatra-bhoota, Nakshatra-Pakshi, Nakshatra-Mriga, Nakshatra-Linga, Tara-Maitri, Rina-dhana etc. Of the above four the first 4 are direct “application” of some ancient concepts in marriage compatibility. (The marriage compatibility system originated later only compared to those concepts). The compatibility considerations given as Nakshatrarelated are may of still later application of some nakshatra related concepts into compatibility, and many acharyas have told us that they should not be given much importance. Now comes the considering the star based Doshas. Yes, except one of them (i.e. Vedha) all of these are star based, and therefore the importance is to that extent only. 1) Nakshatra-Vedha : Though the word Nakshatra is there in the name, it is actually a method for locating star combinations, that fall in the Shashtashtama (6-8 axis) signs that cause the most trouble. So in essence it considers Sign and Nakshatra. 2) Nakshatra varga vedha 3) Rajju Dosha etc But still now, except the general qualities of sign and star, the planetary placement in horoscope is not considered yet!! So let us 49 consider if the planetary placement supports/indicates marriage between those 2 people, by using, 1) Rana-Ranee Bhava (Structural compatibility between horoscopes) and Now let us compare the placement of malefic in the horoscope in a ‘general’ manner, by using, 2) Papa samya (Mangala dosha is just something comes with in this) Actually all the systems said above is child play, and the real ability and understanding of the astrologer in understanding the horoscope, is used from here onwards. i.e. Now we have to check for: 1) Chance for having children 2) Death/Divorce 3) Poverty and scope for economic success 4) Possible Health problems in future 5) Lesbian/Gay nature of male/female Yes, All of these together it is popularly known as Jataka Poruta (meaning ‘Horoscope Matching’) which indicates that this is the most important considerations in horoscope matching and also that these are to be looked IN HOROSCOPE rather than in the mere name of sign or star. Now consider the Agoodha compatibility options as well based on your understanding of the family, education, status, health etc of male and female and their family!! The relatives of bride and groom will do this, even if the astrologer is not doing it. ;) So we don’t have to worry much about it. :) This is the well-classified system put forward by the Acharyas. Can we call it un-scientific, or unsystematic?! We follow it or not, the situations allow us to do it or not, etc are all our trouble and the Acharyas should not be blamed for that!! > this is where a practicing > astrologer if follows saatvik lifestyle and develops divine > intuition, due to the vaak suddhi and vaak siddhi, the reading, > analysis and prediction become simpler Yes, yes, all this is necessary, and I agree completely. But would like to add that, we should add it up to the above (systematic understanding of the system put forward by the Acharyas)for the best results. This mail is becoming too long and I should break it up into two, to discuss the other points put forward by you. :) Otherwise somebody may save the whole mail to the computer for later reading thinking that it is too long, and will net read it!! ;) I will write another mail to address all the other issues pointed to by you. Love, Sreenadh Dear Arjun ji, You said: > stars and planets are existing in nature, > rasis are mythical in nature. I disagree!! Why? I will explain. 1) Stars : They are also mythical (following your terminology) since we are talking about stellar divisions and NOT Yoga taras. Our star (i.e. Nakshatra) is ‘an area in sky’, a stellar division, covering 13 deg 20 min. Thus become mythological due to the same reason you ascribed to rasi. 2) Rasis (Signs) : They are also mythological (following your terminology) since they represent ‘an area in sky’ covering 30 deg. 3) Planets : They are also mythological, since in astrology, we are not talking about the planets that physical entities having no special qualities and significance 9we ascribe to them in astrology). But instead we are talking about Sun that is Father and Atma karaka, Moon that is mother and water, Mars that is warrior etc!!! If not mythological how will you understand it scientifically!! I will better agree upon using the word ‘concept’ or ‘hypothetical construct’ rather than the word ‘mythological’. In astrology 1) Signs 2) Nakshatras 3) Planets 4) Bhavas(Houses) become concepts!!! Actually these are the basic ‘constructs’ in astrology (similar to ‘Vata-Pita-Kapha’ in Ayurveda and ‘Vital force’ in naturopathy) and that is why significance is assigned to these 4 categories only. :) I think you will support this view which helps us much, in understanding the logical system called astrology, and understanding it as a system that fits into ‘holistic approach’. :) You said: 50 > over and above, we have astrology derived from hindu mythology. > while according to mythology we treat planets including satellite > moon as gods and worship their personalities, astronomy and science > paints them as balls of some mass. while the science says how moon > waxes and wanes, all puranas says how moon was cursed with kshaya > roga due to his neglecting of his 27 wives, how the modern man > percieves these contradictions - to see stars as wives and planets > as husbands or just balls of some light. Here also the problem is with understanding the views of ancient Rishi’s in there own light, I mean the system provided by they themselves. I will explain: In there holistic approach to subjects under study, the ancient Rishis from the period of Vedas itself, uses approaches such as1) Adhi-Bhowtika 2) Adhi-Daivika etc. Ascribing human nature or thinking that a divine god/goddess with a particular shape/body/qualities is present within ‘each and every material’ (They left nothing! It was a system of study!) is a method utilized by the saints in study!! But, yes, I should agree that, this lead to too many misunderstandings and confusions. But should also understand that, this system of study is beautifully utilized in astrology which negates this disqualification ascribed to it. :) Just see how beautifully we can picturise things, when we seeSun - as a king, with a strong and matured body Moon - as a queen, with a motherly nature Venus - as the beautiful lady Gulika - as the snake etc !! The same system is in use, when we see Aries - as Ram Taurus - as Ox etc as well!! It is better to have a closer look at the logical systems used by the Rishis, such as Adhi-Bhowtika, Adhi-Daivika etc and also to have a closer look at the holistic system of study, before jumping into conclusions. :) It is easy to ascribe/accept everything as part of mythology, but I would add that, it does not help much in understanding the systematic approach of our ancient seers. :) Understanding the system they followed, in their own terms, is what we lacked till date, and better than late to save our ancient knowledge in good shape, let us try to do that. PS: It is the bigger picture, and the exact understanding of outlines of the subject under scrutiny is of importance in any study. That makes our work simpler. Love, Sreenadh Tarus Lagna Shape = Bull. A good and beautiful body, almost a narcissist, care too much for the bodily and mental well being of oneself, selfish, good high, muscle body, healthy physique, beautiful walking style, likes vegetarian food than non-veg, strong thighs and bulky bottom, kind, helping nature, takes too much responsibilities, feels that life is burdened with too much responsibilities, takes life too seriously, mostly fail to see what others think and feel since he/she is too much immersed in his own thoughts and emotions. Ta is a quadruped sign. This indicates that the native spend his/her childhood in a good house in a village in kingly manner. Agriculture, servants (helpers 3rd house), good amount of land property for relatives, etc will be part of memory. The native Sign Lord = Venus. Probably dark brown skin or clear white skin, interest in music and other art forms, special interest in dress and cosmetics, big beautiful eyes, clear black beautiful hair, likes luxuries and enjoys sex. Oily skin, pimples etc and beauty problems due to that at teenage. Ve is lord of Lagna and 6th exalted in Pc and debilitated in Vi There is a constant inner conflict in him. The mind is always ripped apart between selfishness and understanding of real justice. Mostly justice (Li) fails and Selfishness (Ta) wins. Since Ve is the 6th lord as 51 well, the fight in support of or against sex life rules their life. Likes cleanliness and will try to exercise the same habit in others as well. Likes gardening, agriculture etc. Lagna lord exalted in 11th – will have elder brothers or sisters, but will get a chance to control even them like an elder one, as indicated by 11th lord exalted in 3rd. 6th lord exalted in 11th – will have many enemies. Lagna lord Ve debilitated in 2nd – Will have some trouble having children. 5th sign Vi is female, indicating that the native will probably would have one or two (probably two since Vi is dwiswabhava sign indicating two) daughters. Lagna lord debilitated in Vi (naval portion), some trouble related to interior organs in navel portion. Pregnancy problems, urinary excretory organs related problems, infections etc is a possibility. 6th lord Ve is Female sign – enmity with ladies or due to ladies. Ve exalted in 11th – more than one elder ones (brothers/sisters). Ta is a stira sign, which indicates that the native has a steady nature, and at times fails to change with the changing situations. Due to this memory will be given more importance and good/bad memories would be cherished always. In essence he/she would like to live a half real/ half imaginative life. 3rd lord Mo exalted in Lagna Some special preference as an youngster among co-born. Nature of mind and body of a Taurus native depends too much on the strength (pakshabala) of Mo for this reason. If Mo is week, then the native will have darkish skin, slim body, won’t care much for beauty in the early stages of life etc. If Mo is strong, then the native will have a strong and bulky body, fair skin, plump body, will care too much about beauty and cosmetics even from the early stages of life etc. Mo (significator of Mother) exalted in Lagna indicates that, especially if the native is a girl, she would have to full fill many responsibilities at home like her mother. 3rd house Cn is a water sign, and the lord of it exalted in Lagna indicates that the native will have a special interest in Water sports like swimming, would like to bath many times a day, will like to visit sea lakes and the like etc. Here analysis is shown only for Lagna house. Continue with the same type of analysis for all the houses such as 2nd house, 3rd house etc, which will give a better picture about the life and nature of the Taurus Lagna native. Some other points Mo owns 12th house from 4th (signifies mother). The 4th lord exalted in 12th house from Lagna. The significator of mother Mo gets exalted in Lagna. All these together indicates that, the hard life lead by the mother of the native will have a high impact on the memories and nature of the native. The native won’t get much love neither from mother (4th house owned by a fire planet), nor from father (9th house owned by another malefic). He/She would be more affectionate towards the mother, and will think that the suffering to the mother is mostly caused by the father, even though there would be a some what good relation between the mother and father. A ruling father (or a father with bad habits such as drinking or the like) and an obedient/ suffering/occasionally revolting mother is the general trend for Taurus native. This gives a hard impression of life for him, and he/she really tries to shake off and come out of this shade, and runs after happiness and life without worries. But for sure these memories leave a permanent mark on the native, making him/her improper to handle responsibilities. Coupled with natures like selfishness, running after happiness, tendency to avoid responsibilities, taking life too seriously etc, makes the native fearful, an individual who normally lacks leadership qualities etc, makes him/her an improper fellow to handle independent responsibilities, or do true innovative revolutionary studies. But the native will never be ready to accept this fact, and always thinks and tries to project him/her as an able person. He/She always seeks for appreciation form all quarters and feels happy if it is awarded and feels offended if someone criticizes him/her, even if it is true. But inside them they know this truth, and so respects those who do this kind of criticism but at the same time convinces them (through love) that he/she is not against them. 52 Some other points – • Many brothers/sisters as pointed by 11th lord exalted in 3rd. • Untimely death of elder co-born as indicated by 11th lord having 8th lordship as well. • Relatives in high power in the past as indicated by 4th lord Su exalted in 12th. • Pregnancy problems for women. • Loss of relatives and high interest in family history as indicated by Stira sign in 4th and Su exalted in 12th. • Job away from home (native place) playing a major role in life, even though the native will return to his native place later, and would have strong ties there. • Unsatisfied married life, and early death of husband/wife than the native, as indicated by the lordship of 12th for the 7th lord. • Long life (longevity) as indicated by the lordship of 8th house for Ju, and amrita graha. • Planet that can cause either maximum damage or maximum help to the native due to its unique ownership of house and exaltation debilitation relations – Sa (father, guru, luck) and Ma (brothers/sisters, husband, sadness). • The planet that can give maximum positive effect and happiness – Me (children and knowledge) • Remedial gem stone – Emerald in platinum ring. Remember that all these covers only 1/12 of what can be predicted after knowing that the native is born in Taurus Lagna. I hope others will continue with the same technique, and bring out the total general nature and life events of the native, just by knowing the fact that he/she is born in Taurus Lagna. P.S.: I wait for more inputs on Taurus Lagna from other learned members. Please come forward and comment on the same. Sakunas and Nimittas In one of the yahoo groups, I saw the following message: — In [email protected], “Jyotisa Shisya” <achyutagaddi@> > > wrote: |om| Dear Jyotisas, Nowadays, in the early morning, I go outside and sit on the porch to enjoy the cool morning air. Today I was a little later than usual and wondering if I had missed the milkman’s knock. A crow came up and perched on the parapet wall near to where I was sitting. Into my mind came the following questions in *sequence*: (1) Will the milkman come to deliver the milk? Crows response: three caws (2) Will I get the expected speedpost today? Crows response: two caws The crow then flew away. Actual situation: The milkman came and the speedpost didn’t arrive as of now. Is it a coincidence that YES has three letters while NO has two letters? Who is more intuitive? The crow or the fellow sitting on the porch? Jyotish lesson: Make it a habit to observe acutely what is happening around. you and try to decipher the meaning of what you observe relative to the situation. The art of deciphering nimittas or sakuna sastra is an invaluable tool for the jyotisa. best regards Hari 53 This story aroused my interest and so I forwarded it to [email protected], with the following note: — In [email protected], “Sreenadh” <sreesog@> wrote: Dear All, I have seen the following message in one of the yahoo groups. It is the description of just an incident but the story seems to hide a lot of meaning - and is really good!! So I am forwarding it to our forum for all of us to read. Sreenadh I got the following replay for the same from Pandit Arjun ji. — In [email protected], “panditarjun2004” <panditarjun2004@...> wrote: dear sreenadh ji Even though these shakuna shastras are interesting, i did not read or learn them as i did not find any classics on them. if you could refer any classics mentioning these shakuna shastra or any old books on how to read from animal hints, i would like to learn them also. if predictions can be made on the caws of a crow and barks of a dog and the fall of a lizard, it is really an easy task for an astrologer. with best wishes arjun This prompted me to write a detailed replay for the same, as followsDear Arjun ji, It not due to the reference to sakuna shastras that i presented that mail, but due to the hidden double meaning and anomali. ;) Becoming serious, :) Now coming to the subject of ‘Sakuna’ and ‘Nimitta’ (If you are one a travel the Nimittas that you observe in the start of the journey - with approx 100 m - is termed Sakuna and all omens are generally termed ‘Nimitta’), it is a subject dealt with in Samhitas. So the available ancient classics that deal with this subject would be samhita texts like - Brihat samhita, Harita samhita, Samasa samhita, Maha yatra etc. Prasna texts like Prasnamaraga, Prasnanushtana padhati etc also refer to various omens related to Prasna in an elaborate manner. Texts like Kerala prasna samgraha, Prasna Koutuka gives omens to be observed related to touching of body parts by the qurent. In texts like Siva sworodaya and Agni purana omens judged from breath pattern are mentioned. Even Ayurvedic classic texts like Ashtanga Hridaya also discusses omens that would help the doctor to judge the disease, situation and the possible outcome of the treatment. This system is very old as is evident from the statement of ‘Vishnugupta’ (chanakya) in Chanakya sutra: “Upastita vinasa prakrityakarena karyena drisyate” Meaning, the future possibility of destruction or bad out comes would be indicated by the natural omens. Eg: Before rain we see the clouds - it is an omen Before earth quake the animals react - it is an omen. The classification of omens which depends on various basic principles itself is a big subject to deal with. By the way we value the statement of Vishnugupta (chanakya) because he is the reputed author of a reputed astrological classic called ‘Vishnugupta Hora’. You said: “ if you could refer any classics mentioning these shakuna shastra or any old books on how to read from animal hints, i would like to learn them also” If we want to be systematic and authentic, to understand the animal behavior, it is better to read modern texts on the subject and depend on direct observation and study of animals and nature. :) Mihira in Mahayatra (also known as Brihat yogayatra) asks us to study the animal behavior and nature from direct observation. Yes, I here you ask, where is astrology in it. :) The astrologer is supposed to predict and for that he is collecting all the tools he could, whether that is related to planets and rasi chakra or not. This is specially important in Ashtamangala Prasna etc. For them the concept while considering animal behaviour etc was, “it is important are you able to predict 54 future events accurately and how you do it is not important”! But remember, this concept is JUST PART of the big nimitta system and not a rule that depict the WHOLE nimitta system. I hope the above references will be sufficient to give you a start on the subject, of omens. “if predictions can be made on the caws of a crow and barks of a dog > and the fall of a lizard, it is really an easy task for an astrologer.” No wrong! Wisely and efficiently using and understanding this system is one of the hardest tasks! I have heard a story related to observation of a nimtta by an Ayurvedic doctor. He visited one of the patients with his sishya and having digestion problems. He observed the smell and presence of Jackfruit near to the bed of the patient, and from that omen observed that eating of too much jackfruit was the cause of indigestion. Another day the in the absence of the guru the sishya had to visit a patient with the same problem. He was unable to locate the problem by diagnosis, so he looked around for omens, and found some grass near to the bed of patient. So he immediately asked “Did you ate grass yesterday?”. Same is story of and the study of the system of “Omen observation”. It is in a better damaged state similar to the jataka stream of astrology at present. :) We could find knowledge related to Nature, climate, body language, breath pattern, astrological knowledge of zodiac and planets, animal behavior, biology, psychology, hundreds of beliefs, many superstitions all getting used WITH THE AIM OF PREDICTING THE FUTURE in this branch astrology. It is the ancient mother of several streams of knowledge. :) We should have to look at the subject of omens in a new light. May the grace of nature be with us, with that grace let us be with it, to understand the world around us in a better way, so that everything will reflect in us, and give us clues about the future possibilities which helps us in prediction. PS: * The astrologer is like a mirror who reflects the nature and the qurent himself. * He is a person who see - which others can not see (Even in day to day life) * He is a person who hear - which others can not hear (Even in day to day life) Meaning he observes with attention and understands much more from what others too see and hear. He is the wise man who is there to say what he saw and heard to others, but in a differnt mould, so that it would be beneficial to them. Sreenadh To this mail, I got an interesting response, as follows from Souvik datta ji: Sreenadhji, This reminds me of the string theory on quanum physics... Sreenadhji, do you exist in parallel universes? :) Thanks Souvik My response was as followsDear Sauvik ji, lol.....In a parallel universe called Kerala (with an indecipherable and cumbersome language ‘Malalayalam’), where an astrologer started speaking english recently only... :)) But the wonder is that, these people of the south India, have started copying old Sanskrit texts into their regional scripts, before hundreds of years, and those texts become extinct in North India but still many references and slokas are still available in these regional scripts! They felt it difficult to write Sanskrit and have created 2 scripts - popularly known as ‘Grandha lipi’ or ‘Grandha script’. Grandha lipi means a script that was created to write Sanskrit in a script that resembles regional scripts (with less 55 alphabets)of Kerala and Tamilnadu. These scripts are 1) Tamil Grandha lipi (Now only available in preserved texts in manuscript libraries) [Tamil is the language of the state ‘Tamilnadu’] 2) Malayalam Grandha lipi (This later become the slandered script of Malayalam) [Malayalam is the language of the state ‘Kerala’] Malayalam Grandha lipi become Malayalam and many be because of that many ancient Sanskrit slokas and sloka references are available in in this language and texts. The astrological knowledge in this language is already explored although the fruits are not yet completely presented to the world. But the Tamil Grandha lipi is an unexplored treasure!! Many spend years to translate Sanskrit texts to Tamil Grandha lipi and as you may know Tamil is an older and anceient language than Malayalam. Now nobody reads and uses ‘Tamil Grandha lipi’, but the manuscripts libraries (all over India) have thousands of ‘Grandha lipi’ texts preserved with them!! Who knows, we many find many, ‘thought to be lost texts’ in this collection. It is another treasure for we children to play with - caused by language development and its history. I think, even though I am able to notice this regarding Malayalam and Tamil, there is a possibility that this is the same situation with all the other regional scripts as well. Somebody should conduct a search for ‘Sanskrit astrological classics in regional scripts’. Then from Southern states and from states like Kashmir, Orisa etc new knowledge and lost texts may sprung and rise to their feet, becoming visible to all. :) Love, Sreenadh I think, all these shows how even stories becomes Nimittas for good knowledge sharing. :) Some Fun with Moola trikona There are several interesting things to be noted about the exaltation, debilitation and Moola trikona from a research point of view. Let us discuss some. There are interesting things. For example 1) About Exaltation/Debilitation Lords of nearby signs gets exalted in opposite signs. Me (lord of Ge and Vi) and Ve (lord of Ta and Li) gets exalted in opposite signs Vi and Pi. Ma (lord of Ar and Sc) and Ju (lord of Pi and Sg) gets exalted in opposite signs Cp and Cn. Su and Mo are kings, and it could be considered that both of them should be considered together and both have rulership over Cn and Le. The exaltation degree for Su is 10 deg Ar. The exaltation degree for Mo is 3 deg Ta. Combining them the middle point falls on 21 deg Ar. And the exaltation deg for Sa is 20 deg Li. Opposite signs! 2) About Moolatrikona * Trikona means triangle We could see 3 sets of triangles in this case. (i) Ar-Le-Sg Ar = Moolatrikona of Ma Le = Moolatrikona of Su Sg = Moolatrikona of Ju (ii) Ta-Vi-Cp Ta = Moolatrikona of Mo Vi = Moolatrikona of Me Cp = none (iii)Ge-Li-Aq Ge = none Li = Moolatrikona of Ve 56 Aq = Moolatrikona of Sa Is that not interesting. Moolatrikona means root triangle. Does they indicate the placement of planets at some far ancient time? Why this triangles should become root (base) for these grahas? Are they stronger while in these triangles? :) * Trikona means 5th house Trikona = Trine = 5th house. Tri-trikona=Trine of trine = 9th house Ar = Moolatrikona of Ma Le = Moolatrikona of Su = 5th from Ar Sg = Moolatrikona of Ju = 5th from Le The same applies to the other 2 triangles as well. :) Minimum inputs. ;) I stop here. Now you debate, and find new logics. :) Moolatrikona means root triangle. Does they indicate the placement of planets at some far ancient time? Yes, It could! It seems like a possible planetary position! Was there such a planetary position in some ancient past when astrology originated?! It could be! For sure some secret is there behind! Given below is a chart of BC 3663 June 29 Sunday, generated by JHora; Just to indicate that a similar combination is possible. :) Moolatrikona - Chart (BC 3663) Natal Chart Date: June 29, -3662 Time: 7:00:00 am Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 75 E 46' 00", 23 N 11' 00" Kota, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Kaala-yukta - Bhadrapada Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (3.82% left) Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) Nakshatra: Rohini (Mo) (96.88% left) Yoga: Vajra (Mo) (80.32% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (7.64% left) Hora Lord: Venus (5 min sign: Aq) Mahakala Hora: Sun (5 min sign: Aq) Kaala Lord: Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Sunrise: 5:38:09 am Sunset: 7:08:33 pm Janma Ghatis: 3.4108 Ayanamsa: 54-13-25.80 Sidereal Time: 0:57:04 I am now in Kota (Rajastan) and I thought about this around 7.00 am, and just because of that taking that time and place. :) * Except Ma all other planets fullfill the Moolatrikona condition. * Just to make Ve appear in Li, Chitrapaksha Ayanamsa is used. * I don’t have any argument that astrology started in this period, or that this year has any special importance. * It is just a cute info came to mind while playing with JHora amd Moolatrikona concept. Some place names like Prag Jyotisha, Kamakhya etc (places with historical importance) which Chandrahari ji had mentioned was there in my mind. So I just searched for the place name starting with “Prag” in Jhora 57 place search and got the place name “Pragpura”. Pragpura = Ancient city. Yap, it sounds good. ;) I don’t know where this place is, just having fun. :) Then I just re-casted the horoscope taking 6.00 am as birth time; just for fun; and got the following result Moolatrikona - Chart (BC 3663) - Skanda Date: June 29, -3662 Time: 6:00:00 am Time Zone: 5:30:00 (East of GMT) Place: 76 E 06' 00", 27 N 37' 00" Pragpura, India Altitude: 0.00 meters Lunar Yr-Mo: Kaala-yukta - Bhadrapada Tithi: Krishna Shashthi (Ve) (7.84% left) Vedic Weekday: Sunday (Su) Nakshatra: Krittika (Su) (0.81% left) Yoga: Vajra (Mo) (84.56% left) Karana: Vanija (Ve) (15.69% left) Hora Lord: Sun (5 min sign: Aq) Mahakala Hora: Mars (5 min sign: Li) Kaala Lord: Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Sunrise: 5:26:54 am Sunset: 7:17:06 pm Janma Ghatis: 1.3794 Ayanamsa: 54-13-25.80 (Chitrapaksha) Sidereal Time: 23:58:14 I felt as if it is the natal chart of Skanda (Kartikeya), the originator of Kalatantra (Astrology)! Look at that! Nakshatra = Krittika ! Mahakala Hora= Mars (Kumara)! Weekday = Suday (The first day of week as per Indian system, Also indicates Siva)! Hora Lord = Sun (Siva)! Kaala Lord= Sun (Mahakala: Sun) Legna lord (Me=Young Prince, Kumara) and Ma (Kumara) aspecting lagna! 2 planets exalted, 5 planets in Own house, Ve Vargottama! Shall we create a story that “Skanda, the originator or astrology born in born in the ancient city of Pragpura, in BC 3663 June 29, Early morning 6.00 am. He is considered to be an incarnation, and son of God Siva, Krittikas nurtured him in the childhood etc”. :)) Just having fun. lollllllzzzz.......... P.S. : Even if Moolatrikona graha placement have some importance, this is not that planetary placement. If the ancients got Sa, Ju, Su, Ve, Me, and Mo in the right place; then they could never commit a mistake in mentioning the actual placement of Ma. So it should be another point in time, which caused this Moolatrikona concept. It is also possible that Moolatrikona concept is not at all related to planetary placement at any point of time, but rather a result of theoretical and conceptual considerations. So instead of making new stories, let us continue our study and search. :) Nakshatra Charka In Vedic civilization mainly used the Nakshatra Chakra for astrological prediction. The same can be observed in epics as well. Now the question is – What is this system? And how they used it? Let me try to answer it as per my limited knowledge. First we should accept the following points. 58 • Originally Nakshatra division was related to path of Moon, and in that unequal division, the 28 Nakshatra scheme was used. But later for mathematical clarity the Nakshatra divisions were associated with ecliptic (movement of earth/sun). Thus came the definition of Nakshatra as 1/27 th of the ecliptic, which is equal to 13 deg 20 min. Since Nakshatra Chakra is an equal division of the ecliptic only 27 Nakshatras are important in this system. The concept of Degreeminute was present, as evident from the Mahabharata sloka bit – “KashtaH kala muhoortascha diva ratristhatha lavaH”. Here, Kala = Minute. Bhaga = Degree (This is not mentioned in the sloka) • The 28 Nakshatra scheme, that is associated with the path of moon, will not be discussed here. (Due to the fluctuations in the path of Moon this system can not give correct results for long). The 27 Nakshatra scheme (as told in Titireeya Samhita) is closer to the system we follow today. This is the reason for neglecting the 28 Nakshatra scheme in this study. • The movement of equinox through Nakshatras was observed in Vedic period. This was possible if a fixed frame of Reference of Nakshatra Chakra was in use. That means the Nakshatra Chakra used in Vedic period was not Tropical but Sidereal in nature. • Thus, Nakshatra Chakra is the fixed frame of reference based on which the movements of planets were studied. • The Sidereal Year was also in use and many other year systems as well. The use of Sidereal year is clearly indicated by the Titireeya Brahmana sloka bit “Nakshtrani Savatsarasya Pratishta”, meaning, “The year is calculated based on Nakshatras (fixed stellar divisions)”. • The importance of 360 day Savana year (used in Nakshatra Dasa) is due to the (intentional) association of the ecliptic (movement of Sun) with Nakshatras done by Rishis. Sun stays in a star for 13.333 days on an average. Multiplying it with 27 we get – 360 days. Classifications used to study the nature of Nakshatras 1. Nakshatra devatas were assigned I don’t want to discuss here in details, you can get these details from any slandered text of astrology. 2) Male-Female classification Nakshatra names that end with i, e or a where considered female and others male. Mrigaseersha and Moola were considered Kleeba (impotent) nakshatras. 3) Kula-Upakula-Kulopakula classification Three Nakshatra may fall into a lunar month division of the zodiac. The Nakshatra name based on which the lunar month (Aswini, Krittika, Mrigaseersha etc) is named, that Nakshatras are called Kula. In other words, in the corresponding lunar months full moon occurs in those Nakshatras. The next Nakshatra is called Upakula and the third Kulopakula. The same strategy for all the lunar months. 4) Sthiradi classification. Nakshatras were classified into 5 categories and lordship assigned to planets. This lordship is different from the one considered now. But here the thing to remember is that the meaning of Stiradi names assigned to Nakshatras were considered more important than this lordship. The list is given below: Sthira (fixed) – Utra, Utrada, Uttara Bhadrapada, Rohini - Sun Chara (movable) - Swati, Punarvasu, Tiruvonam, Srevishta, Satabhishak - Moon Ugram (Fierce) – Purva Phalguni, Purva Ashada, Purva Bhadrapada, Bharani, Magha – Mars Misram (Mixed) – Visakha , Krittika - Mercury Kshipram (Fast) – Hasta, Aswani, Pushya - Jupitor 59 Mridu (Soft) – Mrigaseersha, Ravati, Chitra, Anuradha- Venus Teekshnam (Sharp) – Moola, Jyeshta, Ardra, Aslesha- Saturn This classification was used to understand the nature of Nakshatra literature and Epics calls for a detailed study. Hope that before the system is lost someone will come forward to collect, arrange, explore and elaborate this original system of Nakshatra based prediction. and the people born in them. 5) Nakshatra Purusha I started this article by thinking of writing a very long article based on the same, but is seems that my fuel is over, as far as this subject is concerned :) Now I know that it needs a lot more study in my part, to write good long articles on subjects like, ancient system of Nakshatra Chakra based prediction etc. :) Hope you will pardon my ignorance. Just like the Kalapurusha (Rasi purusha) concept related to Rasis, Nakshatra purusha concept was in use. (Ref. Mahabharata) We may be able to find many more classifications if we are willing to search the allied Vedic literature. I think the above is sufficient to have a start. 4-fold prediction system The Nakshatra Chakra, Planets including Ra and Ke, BeneficMalefic classification of planets, Exaltation and debilitation of planets (in Nakshatra Chakra), eclipsing of Sun and Moon, Retrograde of planets The ephemeris components such as Nakshatra-Tithi-VaraKarana- Nityayoga, waxing and waning of Moon – all these were considered to make elaborate prediction. If we look at the epics we could find that a 4-fold system was in use. That means, predictions were given for1) Nakshatra Lagna (Ascendant star) 2) Placement of Planets in Nakshatras 3) Conjunction of Planets (in Nakshatras) 4) Janma-Sampad-Vipat etc naming of Nakshatra was in use. This might have been in use some what similar to the Bhava system. It is not certain, whether the Drishti of Plants was considered in that period or not. If it was, then Drishti should have meant, Drishti between plants in opposite Nakshatras. An elaborate study will reveal the intricacies of this 4-fold system of Nakshatra based prediction system that was in use. An elaborate study of the Nakshatra Chakra (27 Nakshatra scheme) based prediction system used in Vedic Chaya Jyotish In ancient_indian_astrology yahoo group, one of the members pointed to a narration about the experience of “Vargeese Kuryan” (as narrated in one of his books) on Chaya Jyotish. The auther said that, even though “Vargees Kuryan” was intially relectent to belive in the predictions given by the astrologer, he was wonder struck by the accuracy of the system. <SNIP> After Medora’s brother got his shadow ‘read’, they persuded me to do the same. So as not to appear a spoilsport and also for some fun I stood in the sun with the jyotishi measured my shadow. Shuffling through the bunch of parchment-like leaves, and finding what he was looking for, he read out: “You have no faith.” </SNIP> We were all wondering what this ‘Chaya Jyotish’ is! The name was new to us. While disussing about this, another member astrologer of the group ‘jagannathan ji’ pointed out - “Possibly the lagnam is arrived at by measuring the chaaya.” I suggested we will look for more slokas (apart from the ‘Chaya purusha lakshanam’ mentioned by Mihira) related to this method, so as to reach a defenit conclution about the subject and its method. Yesterday I bought a book on “Hanuman Jyothish”, a collection of some locally popular astrological systems which traditionally gets as- 60 sociated with the Tantric systems related to “Hanuman”. Most of them are simple predictions using charts or chakras. The text I bought does not seemed to be authentic and didn’t gave the original sources clearly. (It is compiled by one “Pramod Sagar” and published by “Manoj Packet Books”) In one of its chapters, I found some slokas related to omen interpretation related to crows. The chapter started with the words, “Nagarjuna Uvacha”. As some of you may know “Nagarjuna” is a popular Tantric Guru who wrote Tantric texts like “Kakshapuda” which contains astrology (Kala Tantra) Medicine (Kalamantra) etc as well. He is reputed guru of Ayurveda as well. What ever that be, Nagarjuna is a well respected Guru of the Tantric Stream, even though his Tantri/Matric books contain a large amount of superstitions as well. The purpose of telling it all here is that, I found some info about “Chhaya prasna” and the end of this chapter on `omens related to crows’ in this text of `Hanuman Jyotish”. In the last but one sloka of this chapter is as follows: “Dharopari Trimsavid khande `aava aava’ swaram punaH Yeda ratati kakastada dukhavarta kathayati” Meaning (During Prasna) if in the 3rd Khanda of a day crow cries that would sound ‘aava aava’, then the astrologer should think that some danger is going to happen for that individual. I am not much interested in this bit of info, since I am not an expert in animal behavior, or understanding and interpreting the behavior and sounds of birds and animal. ;) But notice the fact that above quoted, Nagarjuna slokas is in Sanskrit. After this sloka two versions of “Chhaya Prasna” are mentioned by the compiler of the book Hanuman jyothis (pramod sagar). 1) Chhaya Prasna – 1st Version As an extension to the above sloka the compiler (of the book ‘Hanuman Jyotish’) quotes some local Hindi slokas that are related to “Chhaya Prasna”. Look at what he quotes, after saying “Punar vaktavayam adhikokti” (Then I am going to say some extra things that can be said along with) – “Kaka jo bole apana man. Chhaya napike keeje dugane. Sapta bhag se baki joyi. Bole kak pramane hai soyi. Ek rahai to bhojanakari. Dooja lambi jaya savari. Teeje mrityu yatra pavai. Choudha kalaha aag jalavai Panch se mangal yatra kahai. Soonya aru chaH tij man ko lahai” Notice that the language of this sloka is ancient Hindi, that sounds similar to some doha of Kabir. ;) The meaning of the sloka is – When the crow sounds like that, measure the shadow of the native in angulas (an ancient unit of length). Then multiply this length with two and divide it with seven. Take the remainder and based on that (based on the planet indicated by that number?) give the predictions. The predictions given should be 1- gain of food, 2- birth of someone, 3death of someone, 4-more troubles, 5-getting a good message, 6-no prediction, 7-no prediction. If six or seven is the remainder then think that the crow is speaking it own language and that it is not related to that Prasna. Why it interests me? It seems that if we remove the crow from this slokas, then a new system of Prasna emerges. The advice would be – “Measure the shadow of the native in angulas (an ancient unit of length). Then multiply this length with two and divide it with seven. Take the remainder and the based on the planet indicated by that number give the elaborate predictions. Take the sign in which the planet is placed as the Chhaya Arudha (Shadow Arudha). The simple predictions for the remainder number would be, 1- gain of food, 2birth of someone, 3-death of someone, 4-more troubles, 5-getting a good message, 6-no prediction, 0-no prediction. If six or seven is the remainder then think that the crow is speaking it own language and that it is not related to that Prasna. And so if the remainder is 6 or 0 61 (7) then depend totally on the Chhaya Arudha. Taking that sign as the starting point and considering the planetary placement at the time of Prasna related to that Arudha, we can give the total predictions for that native”. Why such a conclusion?! Because there are already several similar systems present as part of normal prasna system of astrology. To mention some – Tamboola Prasna, Akshara Prasna, Dinanadika Prasna etc follow a similar scheme. If this is the case then it becomes clear that Chhaya Jotish or Chhaya Prasna is a sub system (or local deviation) of the normal prasna system that is followed everywhere. And also that it is just part of the normal system of astrology. Nothing much new info is there related to that, except the above quoted bit of info. The length of shadow of the native would be just used to determine the planet and thus (from the placement of the planet in any sign) to derive “Chhaya Arudha”. Taking that sign as the starting point and considering the planetary placement at the time of Prasna related to that Arudha, we can give the total predictions for that native. The above method is briefed by Nagarjuna in Sanskrit as – “Saptaguli parimita chhaya cha dwiguneekrita”. Meaning, Multiply the shadow length (of the native) by two and divide by seven. (and give predictions based on that). The total system of “Chhaya Prasna” is based on this sloka bit by Nagarguna that is part of Tantric school of astrology. The author of the book “Hanuman Jyotish” gives one more interpretation to this bit, which is given below2) Chhaya Prasna – 2nd Version Take a stick (pole) of 7 angula length and measure the length of the shadow of this pole at the time of Prasna. Multiply it by two and divide the result by seven. Give the prediction based on the remainder number (as given above). Here the difference in system followed is only that the instead of the length of the shadow of the native, the length of shadow the seven angula pole is measured at the time of Prasna. Here also the above sloka bit by Nagarguna forms the supporting base and nothing else. Since there is no supporting indication for “Take a stick (pole) of 7 angula length” in the Nagarjuna sloka bit, I feel that the first version is slightly better than this one. I think this clarifies what “Chhaya Jyotish” is or better, what Chhaya Prasna is. :) Thus to conclude “Chhaya Prasna” is an extension of the normal system of Prasna by some local astrologers, based on some slight directions given by the Tantric guru Nagarguna. May be it is also possible that this system is adopted by astrologers who depend on “Hanuman Jyothish” of Tantric astrology than the followers of other streams. But I can not hold wondering how both these streams of “Nagarguna system of Tantric astrology” and “Hanuman system of Tantric astrology” are related. Is it that both are part of Tantric astrology, that holds the link?! I can not also stop wondering – how and why when books and related slokas came to me from nowhere when I just gets interested in them! Thus, those “parchment-like leaves” (mentioned by ‘Vargees Kuryan’) could be some manuscript of normal astrology (since, once the Arudha is determined based on shadow it is easy to make predictions based on normal prasna system of astrology) or could be some special manuscript on “Chhaya Prasna”. This points to necessity of further search for unique texts that deals with “Chhaya Prasna” alone or describes “Chhaya Prasna” in more detail. But for know I think we know what it is. :) Therefore, as far as its accuracy is concerned “It can be accurate only as much as normal system of Prasna - nothing more nothing less”. :) Or better, It is just a small side stream of normal prasna system. This helps us to come out of wondering about the mystery of this system - and get fascinated too much and erroneously judging by mistake that it is better than normal system of astrology. ;) 62 What is Drishti? Dear All, What is Drishti? What is your openion on the same? To further help the discussion, I am presenting my ideas and thoughts on the same. I hope that the following will of help in out search for the original system of Indian Astrology. ===================================================================== What is Drishti? ================ View 1 :- Drishti is relative angles between planets ————————————————————————— — In classics (Krishneeyam, BPHS, Varaha Hora, Yavana Hora) it is said that the planets have partial Drishti towards some houses. It is said that3rd House - 1/4 Drishti 4th House - 3/4 Drishti 5th House - 1/2 Drishti 7th House - 1 Drishti 8th House - 3/4 Drishti 9th House - 1/2 Drishti 10th House - 1/4 Drishti Here you can note that the Drishti is NOT increasing in a gradual manner in the first half till 180 deg, SEEMS TO gradually decrease after 180 deg. This lead somebody (like Sripati) to suggest that, Drishti should be calculated for ALL DEGREES in a Shashtyamsa or Percentage bases. Thus the proposed suggestion by him would be90 deg = 25 % 120 deg = 75 % 150 deg = 50 % 180 deg = 100 % 240 deg = 75 % 270 deg = 50 % 300 deg = 25 % But as you could understand, calculating Drishti for ALL DEGREES becomes relevant only when we accept the “unequal house division system” (Bhava system) proposed by Sripati himself!! Because then only the GRADUAL increment or decrement of a planet’s influence in a single house itself comes into consideration! But as we know already, the ancient Saints considered House and Sign as the same. And therefore no “unequal house division system” was prevalent as per ancient Indian astrology, but only equal signs/houses of 30 deg each. Another pitfall this view leads into is “Associating Drishti with angles”. This concept leads to the view that “Drishti is nothing but relative angles between planets”. If this was the basic concept then the saints could have arranged the Partial Drishti in the following way 90 deg = 25 % 120 deg = 50 % 150 deg = 75 % 180 deg = 100 % 240 deg = 75 % 270 deg = 50 % 300 deg = 25 % Which makes calculation easy, because then we could use the simple formula, 63 (100/180) x Angle = Drishti % But this not possible, since NO CLASSICS by saints support neither this view, nor the concept of “unequal house division”. View 2 :- Drishti is relative signs the planets influence from the sign of their placement ————————————————————————— —————————— —————————— As it happens in several other instances, the very good text “Krishneeya” gives as the clue to the original system followed by the saints. In Krishneeya it is said that Shashtam dwiteeya bhavanam Dwadasamekadesam na pasyati Swastanadweeshyante grahastadanyani bhavanani [The planet does not look (Drishti) towards 2, 6, 11, 12 houses/ signs from the house/sign they are posited in] As we know well the word Bhavana means Sign as clearly stated by Mihira in the sloka, “Rasi Kshetra Griha Rksha Bhani Bhavanm chikartha sampretyaye” [Rasi, Kshetra, Griha, Rksha, Bham, Bhavanam are words with same meaning] Thus it means that, the planets have 0% drishti towards 2, 6, 11, 12 signs from the sign they are posited in! This also means that the concept of GRADUAL increment or decrement of Drishti (proposed by Sripati) should be discarded! If we follow the clear cut rule put forward by the saints, what we get is All planets have Drishti towards 1st Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - (Full) 2nd Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - Nil 3rd Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 1/2 4th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 3/4 5th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 1/2 6th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - Nil 7th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - (Full) 8th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 3/4 9th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 1/2 10th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 1/4 11th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - Nil 12th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - Nil Or in other words All planets have Drishti towards 1st Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 100 % 2nd Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 0 % 3rd Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 50 % 4th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 75 % 5th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 50 % 64 6th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 0 % 7th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 100 % 8th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 75 % 9th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 50 % 10th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 25 % 11th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 0 % 12th Sign from the sign (completely) from the sign they are posited in - 0 % If you feel that this concept of Saints about partial Drishti is primitive and incomplete, then I would boldly say that, we should accept their concept AS IS till we understand the original astrological system proposed by them, completely. We have NO RIGHT to pour water into the system they proposed without clearly understanding the system proposed by them. I reject Sripati (his corrupting of the original system) also in the same spirit. One more point we should remember - The saints of Arsha School (Skanda, Vasishta, Viswamitra etc), Garga School (Garga, Rishiputra etc) NEVER proposed any “Partial Drishti” system! They have only talked about “Full Drishti” (towards 7th House) and “Special Drishti” (of Ma, Sa and Ju) only and NOT about “Partial Drishti”! It is the Yavana School (Yevanewara, Meenaraja, Sphujidhwaja etc) that proposed partial Drishti. Probably it is from Yevanewara that Parasara borrowed this concept of Partial Drishti. Since Parasara borrowed many concepts from Yavaneswara [An Indian (Afghanistan?) guru of an astrological school of thought who lived far before Alexander’s invasion to India and before the period of Parasara Hora, i.e. 1400 BC], many have even abused Parasara as Yevana! So 1) if you want to go by the original steam of Indian astrology, let us first discard the “gradually increasing or decreasing drishti” concept of Sripati and the idea that “Drishti is relative angles between planets”. 2) If you are strong willed and a real puritan then, discard the concept of partial drishti itself, since the Arsha School and the Garga School never propose such a thing!! But I won’t suggest you to do the second thing, since we also respect the views of Yevanewara and Parasara as well. Moreover Krishneeyam and Saravali also talk about Partial Drishti (probably following Parasara). Saravali even goes to the extend of proposing some Rajayoga based on Partial Drishti in slokas like “Vrishe Sasi lagnagataH supoorno...” and “EkaH sweche subhaH syachubha gaganagaH...” etc. So I won’t suggest discarding the “Partial Drishti” concept, but for sure we should discard the corrupting ideas put forward by Sripati, with the malicious intention of giving a strong hold to his “unequal house division system”. ===================================================================== New inputs and thoughts on this issue, (especially based on clear evidance from astrological classics), are welcome. :) Yap, Even if not based on classics, all clear logical thoughts and ideas are welcome. ;) I would personally request well knowledgeable persons 65 like Panditji, Dakshnamoorti ji, Chandra hari etc to pour more inputs and thoughts on the same, revealing their true ideas. As I know that Vijayadas Pradeep ji is a person who (probably due to intution) who argues in this direction, I also request him to pour in more inputs. :) Love, Sreenadh Re: What is Drishti? - What is your openion? Dear Pandit ji, I don’find any statement in support of considering Rasi and Bhava as seperate entities in texts before 10th century. But I do find statements that supports considering Rasi and Bhava as one and the same entities, with the only difference that Rasis statrs from Aries, and Bhavas starts from Lagna. The following is one of the earlier articles I wrote on the same. I am not challenging your view, but just providing evidence in support of my arguments. ==================================================================== Sign and House are the same =========================== We may think that Sign are House are different, because there are so many methods - such as one put forward by Sreepathi (10th century), Krishnamoorthi, 30 Degree equal division etc. Now what was the opinion of ancient Rishis on this subject? Have they considered Sign and House differently - except from the fact that Signs starts from Aris and Houses starts from the Ascendant? Let us go through some of the available refferences. Varahamihira (6th Century) ————————————— Varahamihira says that - ‘Rasi kshethra griharksha bhani bhavanam chaikardha samprethyaye’. Which means - the words Rasi, Kshethra, Griha, Riksha, Bham and Bhavanam are used in the same meaning through out the text Varahahora. (Note the fact that the words Rasi and Griha are used in the same meaning). Ok. For that what? I will explain. In the 15th sloka of the first chapter he states that ‘Horadayasthanu kudumba sahotdha bandhuputhrari pathni maranani subhaspadaya ribhakhyamithyupachanyari karma labhaduschithka samgjitha “grihani” na nithyameke’ Which means that - the Houses (Grihani) starting from ascendant have the names Thanu (Body -Ascendant), Kudumba (Own house - 2nd house), Sahotdha (Brothers - 3rd house), Bandhu (Relatives - 4th house), Puthra (Son - 5th house), Ari (Enemy - 6th house), Pathni (Wife - 7th house), Marana (Death - 8th house), Subha (Good things - 9th house), Aspada (Job - 10th house), Aya (Earnings 11th house), Ribha (Expenditure - 12th house). Everybody will accept the fact that houses are mentioned here. I am attracting your attention to the word, which was used to describe these houses - it is ‘Griha’. In earlier statement Varahamihira has already said that the words Griha and Rasi and used in the same name throughout his text. Is it not a convincing evidence for the fact that Varahamihira considered Sign (Rasi) and house as the same? If you are not convinced read the next sloka of 66 the same text. ‘Kalya swa vikrama griha prethibha kshethani chithodha randhra guru mana bhava vyeyani legnachathurdha nidhane chathurasra samjche dunam cha sapthama “griham” desamarkshamajcha’ Which means (only the relevant portion) - the houses (Griham) starting from the ascendant have the names Kalya (Fame Ascendant), Swa (Assets - 2nd house), Vikrama (Courage - 3rd house), Griha (House were you are born - 4th house), Prethibha (Intelligence - 5th house), Kshethani (Wounds - 6th house), Chithodha (Ego - 7th house), Randhra (8th house), Guru (Teacher 9th house), Mana (Proudness - 10th house), Bhava (Next birth 11th house), Vyeya (Expenditure - 12th house). Here also note the fact that the word Griha is used - which explicitly means Sign and House at the same time, because the words Sign and House means the same thing, with the only difference that Signs are counted from Aris while the Houses are counted from Ascendant. Therefore it becomes clear that even at the period of 6th century AD, Signs and Houses are considered the same. It was people like Sreepathi (10th century) who made all the confusion by interpreting Sign and House as two different entities, and by providing new techniques of the calculation of Houses. (And just look - in what a mess we are!! There are 5 or more methods for calculating house!! In which we should depend on?! I don’t want to go into the detail). Even after all this happened there were learned scholars who never let away the correct system - and if you are not convinced read Krishneeyam and Saravali. Krishneeyam ————— Krishneeyam is written by one krishnacharya who probably lived in the 13th Century AD. A well-known and fascinating commentary for this classic text is chathura-sundari, written by Vishnu (the son of madhavacharya who has written madhaveeya). While commenting on the 9th sloka of Krishneeyam, he says, “adha moorthyadishu dvadesa rasishu dwadesha bhavanaha”. Which means, ‘Starting from the ascendant the twelve signs are also known as twelve houses’. This is so clear and explicit a statement, that no true learner of astrology can deny the fact that, Vishnu considered Signs and Houses as the same thing. This also points to the fact that, Krishnacharya and Madhavacharya also considered Signs and Houses as the same thing. Conclusion ————— If all these ancient acharyas (Rishis, Parasara, Varahamihira, Krishnacharya, Madhavacharya, Kalyanavarama etc) considered Sign and House as the same thing, who are we to say that they are different. Therefore any true learner of Vedic astrology, should accept and follow the path shown by these acharyas, and consider Sign and House as the same thing. (Probably Sreepathi had started all this trouble) ==================================================================== 67 I am happy to know that you accept Rasi=Bhava at least for Chandra Kundali. Love, Sreenadh Dear Arjun ji, You asked: > do the special aspects of 4,8 for mars and 3,10 for saturn and 5,9 for > jupiter have any logic behind them. if so, why venus, mercury, sun > and moon do not have these special aspects. I don’t know. May be the rational for this is present in lost part of the Rishi horas. The only thing I know is that all the different schools of astrological thought such as Arsha school, Jayna school, Yavana School support the concept of special drishti. I will supply the available quotes below: Triteeye dasame souriH jeevastad trikonage Chaturasram dharasoonuH kalatre nikhila grahaH Poornam pasyanti sarvatra prayaschanti phalam tatha (Surya hora) This is a text of the Arsha school. Although similar sloka is not available from the other slokas we can see that Skanda Hora, Brihal prajapatya, Vasishta hora, Kousika hora and Sounaka hora also supports the concept of “Special Drishti” (Ma to 4th and 8th, Ju to 5th and 9th, Sa to 3rd and 10th) These are all texts of the Arsha school. Now considering the Jayne school of thought – Duschitkagan souristrikonastan brihaspatiH Chaturthashtamagan bhoumaH seshaH saptama samstitan Bhavanti veekshane nityam uktadhika phala grahaH (Gargi hora) This is a text of Jayne school of thought. Including Garga and Rishiputra all the Rishis of this school as well support the concept of special drishti as evident from the above sloka. Now coming to Yavana school of thought – Phalam visesham pravadamyathato Bhoumasay poornam chaturasrabhe syat Phalam cha jeevasya tatha trikonam Poornam saneH syad dasame triteeye (Yevaneswara Hora) The scholars like Yevanacharya, Meenaraja, Sphujidhwaja etc of this stream of thought also fully support the concept of special drishti. Being the students of ancient Indian astrological system, we are trying to understand this ancient system without violating the basic rules put forward by them. Therefore even though we don’t know the exact logic behind the concept of special drishti we have to accept it. Yes, of course we can continue our search for the logic behind this concept. When the time and effort is ripe the truth will be revealed to us. Except Spujudwaja Hora and Meenaraja Hora all the texts mentioned above are lost and only some slokas are available. The available slokas does not discuss the logic behind this concept, so we presume that it would be there in the lost part of these texts. But yes, the concept of special drishti for Ma, Ju and Sa is one of the age old, fundamental concept in astrology. PS: I forgot to add, all those slokas mean, “all planets have 68 drishti towards the 7th house from the house it is placed. Sa has special drishti towards 3rd and 10th house. Ju has special drishti towards 5th and 9th house. Ma has special drishti towards 4th and 8th house” Love, Sreenadh Dear Arjun ji, You are exactly right. > till date i did not get the > answer to “why” these special aspects for three planets? “why” the > other planets do not have special aspects? Me too is searching for the answer to that question. But the fact remains that even when we find some logically correct answer [that ofcourse we can find ;) ] that may not be the true one!!! I will try to provide (inventions!!) some possible EXPLANATIONS later (let me think about it), but be sure to remember that they may not be the true ones. :) Love, Sreenadh Dear Panditji, Genuine reply of the truly learned! :) Thank you. I was thinking in the same lines. Sa is karaka for 10th, Ju for 9th etc. So the Drishti may have something to do with (fixed) Bhava karakatwa assigned to planets as well. But yes, it could be one of the reasons. PS: Dear all, see the humbleness in that reply, even when it is coming from a scholar like Panditji. Love, Sreenadh Dear Vinita ji, I forgot to add one point. You said: > rasi dristi is to be seen to find the > connection with karakas. For instance, the connection with Ketu > through rasi dristi indicates the path for Moksha. The point that instentanously originated in my mind is that, we haven’t yet discussed the point “How karakatwas are considered?” or “How significance of various things gets associated with planets”. The important point is: “Any planet can be a karaka for anything (as per placement)”!!!! The sloka that instenatiously comes to my mind is “Adhipa sarva bhavanam karaka parikeertita” Meaning, the lord of any house is significator for all the things indicated by that house. House and sign are the same. So it means that, that planet becomes the significator for everying indicated by that sign as well! As told earlier, Significance is assigned to 1) Signs 2) Houses 4) Nakshatras 3) Planets Let us take the question, who is vidya karaka? Me is vidya karaka, Ju is vidya karaka, Sa is vidya karaka especially related to sanyasa, Su is vidya karaka since sun represents atma, Mo is vidyakaraka since mo represents mind, Ma is vidyakaraka especially related to weapons, etc. Any one can extend it and we would be in trouble if we are trying to assign vidya karakatwa to a single planet alone! The same is the situation, when we are trying to locate Atma karaka and Moksha karaka as well! So I am 69 against the compartmentalisation is karakatwas, and let us be fluxible in such issues, as we are dealing with a subject that follows holistic method. In this light if we are looking at 1) Atmakaraka, Pitr karaka etc concept (Parasara/Jaimini) 2) Assigning special fixed karakas to houses 3) Sahamas concept (Forgive my ignorance - who coined that word?) which as per classical astrology is termed “Sphuta Yoga” - which associates a single thing with special logitudinal degrees. What should be our view? All these are innovative methods and should be appreciated. But are they part of the original stream of thought? I invite all to shed more light on the issues involved. PS: We should disuses the question “In how many methods significance could get associated to a planet?’ in detail. That is also part of the basics. Dear vinita ji, thanks for the information shared and my regards to Sanjay ji as well. Forgive my ignorance - but I am yet to learn in detail BPHS and Jaimini sutra. Or it is better to say I am familiar with BPHS to an extend (at least about the concepts discussed in BPHS that are in line with the conventional astrology), but have no idea about Jaimini sutra till now. I should turn my attention in those directions as well - but before that itself, much work to do in other areas. Love, Sreenadh — In [email protected], “Sreenadh” <sreesog@...> wrote: > > Dear Vinita ji, > I said: > > “I am not that familiar with Rasi Drishti and its application.” > The reason behind was something else. That is, Rasi drishti is not > at all discussed in other schools of astrology, except by Parasara > and Jaimini. I was more interested in the Arsha, Jyna(Garga) > Schools of thought, than Yevana, Prarasara and Jaimini for long The > reason being that the first 2 still remain unexplored. The new > revival stream is after Parasara, Jaimini and others will explore > it. ;) It is work sharing :)) and my field seems to be different. > Parasara puts forward many new methods - but let us first have a > clear idea of the methods that were in use before him. Yes, the fact > that he mixed several ideas of Yavanacharya with the true Indian > system holds me back to an extend. But yes, he was great! I don’t > know much about “jaimini system” and that too seems to be different > from the original stream - and I am still in doubt, to what extend we > can appreciate the mixing of different streams/schools of thought. > Now coming to Sanjay Rath, I appreciate his efforts, and recently > got his book “Crux of Vedic Astrology”, and yet to go through it in > detail. I appreciate his efforts in bring into light the various dasa > systems. But for that he seems to depend too much on “Jataka > Parijata” of recent origin. This text “Jataka Parijata” by “Vidya > nadha suri” is considered as a poetical elaboration of the concepts 70 > put forward in “Varaha Hora”. But many of the concepts put forward in > this text “”Jataka Parijata” does not find authentic classical > support, and to add many are “against” the classical ideas! This is a > text that should approached only with care - but still an appreciable > and worthy text. > I am totally against the divisional chart concept and its absurd > explanations put forward by Sanjay Rath. They find no support from > classics, and it seems that he is intentionally trying to > misinterpret the slokas as far as divisional charts are concerned. > Yes, It is his efforts on explaining various dasa systems that should > be valued, than that funny (since no classics supports it) divisional > charts concept which came into light from no where. :) I am stating > this only on the basing of having a passing view of his book, “Crux > of Vedic astrology”. Yes, but I should add that it is worthy book for > reading which gives a new outlook for the astrology students and > learners. I appreciate this. > It seems that it is the period of renaissance for astrology. ;) Let > it be Chandra Hari, PVR, Sanjay Rath, or our humble efforts - it is > causing a new out look to emerge. Yes, this list is vast, a new > thought and an innovative idea joining hand in this tide every moment. > > PS: Many tides may clash each other exchanging energy or causing > change of direction to many others. But they are all tides for sure. > Let us value the beauty of every tide we see around us. > Love, ¾ Sree Dear Padeep, You said: > For a graha to influence another rashi a minimum angle is > must.Dwisabhava rashis are always in kendras from one > another,and hence there is no need for such an exclusion. Those statements contradict. By the first statement you are accepting that “Drishti is ‘related to’ angle between planets/rashis”. It seems that you are speaking about “Rashi Drishti”, although you are using the wordings ‘for a graha to influence’. The angle between chara signs is 90 deg, the angle between sthira signs are 90 deg, the angle between ubhaya signs are 90 deg. But how you are going to associate angle when - chara signs has rasi drishti only on sthira signs and sthira signs has rasi drishti only on chara signs ? Kendras are separated by 90 deg. But if Aries aspects Le, Sc and Aq, then, the angle between Ar and Le is 150 deg, between Le and Sc is 90 deg and between Sc and Aq is 90 deg. So the point is, you can not compare rasi drishti to Ubhaya (dwiswabhava) signs and that of chara (movable) and sthira (fixed) signs. I hope that you got the point. Now why don’t you, have a look at another angel of view. I will 71 state it for you - below. * Fixed drishti between signs is like characteristics of the signs itself. Then what is the purpose of the concepts like ‘Rasi drishti’ itself?! Describing the characteristics of the signs itself will explain the effects of Rasi drishti as well. Or in other words Rasi Drishti is a concept similar to Chara-Sthira-Ubhya, Male-Female, etc classifications, which describe the nature of a sign. Instead of descibing the nature of the sign, coining words and concepts like ‘rasi drishti’ contradicts the basics and that is why no rishi of Arsha (Skanda) and Jayne (Garga) school speaks about it. * Rasi drishti has a FIXED nature and is NOT DYNAMIC like graha drishti which changes from horoscope to horoscope. This also should hold as back from using them in the similar way. Yes, I always appreciate your intuition, as evident from the words > My strong feeling is Rashi drishtis are not to be used along with > graha drishti. Again in your own words: > We should never ever mix these two systems. (i.e. Rasi Drishti and Graha Drishti) I agree to it. About Sanjay Rath ji: > It is very clear that Shri Sanjay Rath is a > scholar and has indepth knowledge.It is also true that he has been > doing a lot towards promotion of jyotish and providing free > knoweldge. Yes, I supports those statements and truly appreciate the research he has done about the system of astrology. But the PROBLEM is, he takes some concepts from some astrological classics, INVENTS(!) its new applications all by himself! (It is violation of studentship of the ancient Indian system of astrology!) For the first step he always provides quotes, but alas for the second step how to provide quotes when there no such thing exists! For example: 1) In pradeep’s words: “Jaimini has not told us to use rashi drishti in so called ‘’D-9'’.” Yes, he INVENTS the application of everything in D-Charts, and INVENTS new items about which every D-Chart (higher multiples) should talk about, he INVENTS methods to calculate anther dasas and anther dasa periods where no such things are provided!! He is a very good INVENTOR!! :)) If not FUNNY what is this? Is it that he considers himself as equallent to Rishis who breached the barriers of the world (the system that is world) and created the astrological system which can be used to have a glimpse of the working of the beyond (i.e. destiny/time or mahakala). Those who want to study and use the “ancient indian astrology by the saints” will_not/can_not accept this. If some one is doing this then he is becoming the students of the “Rathian system” and NOT of the original streams like - Arsha system, Vedic system, Tantric system, Yevana system etc. Because the D-charts, and the new applications of higher D-charts INVENTED by Rath, the special things of analysis he associates with different dasa systems etc are NOT supported by classics. 72 Yes, but what ever this be the new energy he brought into astrology and his hard work on Dasa systems, the evolvement of the great programmer like PVR who put everyone of Rath’s ideas into his software JH 7.0, the great co-ordination capabilities, the popularity he brought in for astrology in the west - all these should be appreciated, and is of immense value. My love and regards to him. PS: Pradeep ji, may be now it is clear why ‘Drishti’ means ‘Graha Drishti’ only and NOT ‘Rasi Drishti’. ;) Love, Sreenadh Dear Arjun ji, Once I mentioned that I will find(!) some logical explanation for special drishtis. Here is two of them. :) Not in detail, jus a small sample. ;) Logic -1 ———— The special drishti is - “Charanabhi vridhita”, starts from legs! :) Now consider kala purusha, let us alote leg to Sa, 10 th house indicates middle portion of legs. let us make it short Sa = 3rd and 10th = Throat (Sound - Air) and Legs. Ma = 4th and 8th = Chest and Sexual organs (Courage and Kama) Ju = 5th and 9th = Belly and Thigh So it is the Kalapurusha concept and the significance of body parts is there behind. Logic -2 (Not perfect) ———— The special drishti is - “Charanabhi vridhita”, one by fourth! :) 12/4 = 3. Meaning it increase by 3 signs in the order “Ravija Amaredhya Rudira pare cha” (Varaha hora), i.e Sa, Ju, Ma, others. Count 3 from Lagna = 3rd hous = Sa. Count 3 from 3rd house = 5th house = ju Count 3 from 5th house = 7th house = Ma and others. Count 3 from 7th house = 9th house = Ju Count 3 from 9th house = 11th house(!) = Sa ? [Here the logic fails and I stopped. :)) ] Logic -3 (Not perfect) ———— Let us do some maths 3+10 = 13 ; 13-12 = 1 ; Lagna 4+8 = 12 ; 12th house 5+9 = 14 ; 14-12 = 2 ; 2nd house Ju is the karaka for 2nd house. Any connection? ;) Now the cutest part of this mail: ———————————————— “Special Complete Drishti” is supported by “NO Rishi horas” of the Arsha Kula! They have approved only that, ALL PLANETS have 1/4th Drishti in 3rd and 10 house 1/2 Drishti in 5th and 9th 3/4th Drishti in 4th and 8th The concept of Special complete Drishti is a concept by Jain school of astrology, and is first given in Gargi hora. Even Varaha mihira indicates that it is not his concept but of others!! In the sloka “Tri dasa trikona.......kila veekshanedhika”, He says that it is an openion of “kila”, some others (not mihira)! But yes, as you know Laghu parasari supports this concept of Special complete drishti. (But now the question comes Laghu parasari is by Parasara or some body else?) Ok, what ever that be, we can accept 73 that Gargi and Parasara approves the concept of special Drishtis, and it is extensively in use now a days as well. :) Love, Sreenadh Dear Arjun ji, In Varaha hora we can find the sloka Tridasa trikona chaturashta saptamanavalokayanti charanabhi vridhita Ravijamaredhya rudhira parecha ye Kremaso bhavanti kila veekshanedhika I think that sloka, refects all these logics and many more! About the logic you said - just look at the sequece given in sloka! Ravija (Sa) - Amaredhya (Ju) - Rudhira (Ma)- Pare cha (Others). So the order is: Sa->Ju->Ma->||(Earth)||->Others (Mo,Ve,Me,Su) Listen to the word “Para”. The opposits could be “Apara”. Is it that Sa, Ju, Ma are - Para grahas and (Mo),Ve,Me,Su - are Apara grahas Does it that Para and Apara indicates the two sides of earth as well?! ;) Don’t confuce - the real meaning of the word Para is “Others”. I was just excersising logic. :) Want some more? Apara =A+Pa+ra. As per kapadayadi notation it would be 0-1-2. Writing in revese order (the standered method for kapadayadi), it becomes 210. 210/30 = 7. All the planets have full drishti in 7th house. Any connection? :) Yes, All this concepts about “Special full Drishti” of Sa, Ju and Ma are openions of somebody (Garga and Parasara) and not of the tradition followed by Mihira! Look at the word ‘Kila’=somebody says! It means that except the Gargi hora reference, Mihira couldn’t find this concept in Skanda hora, Brihal prajapatya, Vasishta Hora, Sounaka Hora, Kousika hora etc. :) But yes, I too think that your logic is the best out of the available ones. :) Love, Sreenadh — In [email protected], “panditarjun2004” <panditarjun2004@...> wrote: > > dear sreenadh ji > > thanks for listing various logics which give new dimensions. > > i personally believe the following logic: > > as per NASA, the order of the planets is as follows: > > SUN > MERCURY > VENUS > EARTH (MOON) > ============ > MARS > JUPITER > SATURN 74 > > we find Mars, Jupiter and Saturn which are on the other side of > earth are assigned special aspects either due to their farthest from > sun or some technical scientific reason. i am not a scientist but > believe there is some deeper meaning in this structure which > correlates to the special aspects of these three planets. > > please throw more light from this angle or correct me if i am wrong. > > with best wishes > pandit arjun >genitals is a totally unappealing concept. Now just see what response he gets from Pradeep? >Dear Narasimhaji, >If thighs begin after genitals, how do we align or locate genitals is going to be an interesting question. Do we have to wait until the end of genitals (depending on the length) to begin thighs!!! One gets what he gives!!! That is to PVR. But please stop all these nonsense. Are we here to discuss the length of genitals or to discuss astrology? With due respect I would appeal to Pradeep, dear Pradeep please don’t use such language. There is one sloka in YogavasishtaNanu tharkkikthamethe nasaneeya prebudhatha Mooladharam To PVR, Pradeep and all others who are listening to this conversation, In a previous mail to PVR I said, >The Vyenjanm (Linga of Kalapurusha) is ascribed to Scorpio (210 deg -240 deg). >Certainly Mooladharam of Kalapurusha should come in that region, is it not so? (Sreenadh) This statement says, “Mooladharam should come in the 210-240 deg region”. Now just see how PVR twists that statement. > The point 240 deg is the end of genitals and beginning of thighs. > It is not at all true that Kala Purusha’s mooladhara chakra is in his linga (genitals). >To me, Mooladhara chakra of Kala Purusha being at 240 deg or being at the end of his ‘Using the wrong arguments don’t destroy the rising of mind towards truth’ Let us go back to astrology. For clarificaion let us subdivide the subject into many. 1) Does Moola star qualify to be the fixed reference for zodiac division? 2) Where Mooladhara is located in human body? 3) Does the Sastharas propose a one to one correspondence of Human-body and Kalapurusha? 4) Where should come the Mooladhara of Kalapurusha? 1) Does Moola star qualify to be the fixed reference for zodiac division? Moola means root. Root of what? Moola is part of zodiac division. So it is simple to understand that Moola means ‘The root of zodiac division’. It is the base star, which is, used as a reference for the fixed zodiac division, which is used as a fixed reference frame to, 75 assesses the movement of Sun, Moon, Planets, Nodes etc. Moola star is located very near to the center of our galaxy, Milky Way. It (Moola stellar division) is the root from which the whole Milky Way sprung up. See the name of stellar division next to Moola star - ‘Jyeshta’ (Meaning eldest or first). Therefore Moola star well qualifies to be the root of zodiac division. (There is no other stellar division with such clear etymological connotation) Zodiac is the fixed reference frame using which calendar phenomena such as movements of planets are assessed. Therefore one should make it clear in his mind that Moola - means ‘Root of zodiac division’ Jyeshta - means ‘The first stellar division’ 2) Where Mooladhara is located in human body? Mooladhara, Swadhishtana etc are all words related to Yoga. Therefore let us look at the Yoga books to get a clear picture. As per Siva-samhithaGudathudhyanguladoordhvam mendrathudhyanguladadha Chathurangula vistharamadharam varthathe samam ‘Above 2 angulas from anus and below 2 angulas from genitals Mooladhara is located. It covers an area of 4 angulas’ Therefore it is clear that, Mooladhara is at the middle of Anus and genitals. Even though Pradeep says that ‘this is not I have read anywhere, but just my feeling’, just see how clearly he puts it. He says, “Identified by Yoga as the ‘Root Chakra’, this Aura-center is located just below the base of the spine, between the anus and sexual organs”. Certainly it neither the end of genitals, nor in basti (the area just above genitals). I would suggest PVR to read Yoga texts or Upanishads like Yoga-thathvopanishad, Yoga-rajopanishad, Yoga-chaoodamani upanishad etc before making such absurd statements. See this statement of PVR - “I know for a fact where MY Mooladhara chakra is and .........” I don’t think you know. Not only you are denying all the upanishads on this but also the Yoga system. See that big MY in which nothing but ego is reflected. 3) Does the Sastharas propose an one to one correspondence of Human-body and Kalapurusha? The whole Indian culture speaks about the one to one correspondence of the Universe and Human body (The one to one correspondence of the Macrocosm and Microcosm). PVR also states the same thing - “The way I see it, one’s body is a microcosm of the Brahmanda (Universe)’. For astrology universe means the zodiac. The whole zodiac is nothing but the parts of body of Kalapurusha. Therefore, in astrology we use to consider an one to one correspondence of Kalapurusha (Zodiac) and Human body. See this statement in Saravali Kalanarasyavayaval purushanam kalpayel Presavakele pushimchopadravaschethi ‘Considering the body parts of Kalapurusha, we can predict the good/bad things connected with the body of the child, at the time of birth’. Both PVR and Pradeep are well aware of this. As Pradeep puts it - “Now we know Kalapurusha and Human body has one to one correspondence as per Jyothisha-Am I wrong?” See his humbleness in putting forward an already known fact. 4) Where should come the Mooladhara of Kalapurusha? Now if we accept that ‘The Kalapurusha and Human body has one to one correspondence’, where should come the Mooladhara? As per Siva-samhitha it should be “Below 2 angulas from genitals”. From the sloka “Kalangani varangamana muro...” of Varaha-hora, it is clear that it should come in the sign Scorpio (Vrischika). Because in this sloka the Vyenjanm (Linga/genitals of Kalapurusha) is ascribed to Scorpio (210 deg -240 deg). Now Mooladharam is below the 76 genitals of Kalapurusha and certainly above thighs (The sign Sagittarius - Dhanu). In the junction of Scorpio and Sagittarius we see the Moola star. Also considering the fact that it is the root from which the whole milky way sprung-up, can any objective scholar of astrology, deny the correlation of Moola star and Mooladharam? It is a lost link of zodiac division that Hari restores. (Instead of just saying that the zodiac division occurred considering the Mooladhara of Kalapurusha, he mathematically shows as how it is done, and reveals the theoretical foundation as per Surya-sidhantha. Shouldn’t we appreciate his efforts?) As far as Bhavas are concerned, look at the sloka Moordhasya gala skankdha hridayodara vasthidesa guhyani Ooru janu jenkhe padou Bhava kredadya legnadya (Jathakadesam) In this sloka 'guhya' (Anus/Linga region) is ascribed to 8th, and Ooru (Thighs) are ascribed to 9th. Mooladharam should come in the junction of this means, it should be in the junction of 8th and 9th Bhava. (Don't mix-up Kalapurusha and Bhavapurusha) To PVR I would like to say - “It is not possible that you are not knowing all this even after doing such an in-depth study on astrology. If you are putting wrong arguments (that are against ancient authorities) even after knowing all this then you are doing a sin, which is not at all good for a follower of truth”. Now what about PVR’s argument that Mooladhara is at the basti area (180 deg) of Kalapurusha? Just look at the fact, PVR’s Kalapurusha has got 2 Mooladharas, 2 Manipoorakas etc. Have we ever seen or heard of such a thing? I would ask why stop at 2, why don’t 5, 10, 100, or 1000? As Veda says ‘Sahasra seersha purusha...’, 1000 would be a better option. OK. Leave it. Taking the conversation to a communicable level, I should be better ask, “Dear PVR can you quote your authorities?”, “Which are the slokas you base your assumptions upon?”. If there is sufficient authority to this argument, we should drop our prejudice and accept it as another possibility. We have got 10ths of Desa systems, many methods to find Arooda lagna, many methods to fix numbers, many methods for birth rectification, thousands of gods etc, then it is also a possibility. But still if you want me or others to accept your argument as one of the possibilities, then you should quote your authorities. Astrology is a branch of knowledge based on ancient advice. Therefore the Kalaprekasika sloka Jyothisham vyevaharam cha prayaschitham chikithsakam Vina sasthrena yo brooyath thamahur brahmakhathakam ‘Who ever is speaking about astrology, judiciary, Tantric worships and medicine with out proper authority, he is a sinner more than one who kills Brahmans’. Jyothisha vyevaharadeen sasthramalochya yo vadeth Asvamedhadhikam punyam prahusthasya maneeshina ‘Who ever is speaking about astrology, judiciary etc based on proper authority, he will attain more punya than one who does great yagas’. OK. Hope PVR will come out with sufficient explanation. The 14 Lokas and 14 Chakras Are we speaking of astrology or some concepts in Bhagavathaam? (When we speak about astrology we should quote astrological texts). PVR just got irritated by the word Linga. Pradeep is saying “SANKARA is FINAL, fix your mind in HIM”. Are we into some Vishnava-Saiva controversy? PVR argues like an ISKONist who putting aside texts like Njaneswari and Geetha-rahasyam find trust in ‘Real’-Geetha, and finds an investment there-in. One whose religion comes from outside and not from with-in. (Are you an ISKON devotee?). It is a matter of 77 private faith. One shouldn’t question. Pradeep seems to be a worshipper of Siva. If it going to be some Vishnava-Saiva controversy, I am not interested in. Only thing I would like to quote is Yo hi vishnussa evathma yo hyathma sa maheswara Vishnvathma sabdou paryayou yedha vitapi padapou Athmaiva devo bhagavan siva parama karana This sloka is from Yoga-vasishtam. Which says that Vishnu, Athma and Maheswara (Siva) are the different names for one and the same entity. If PVR turns out to be an ISKON devotee, I don’t want to continue this discussion on lokas/chakras. Because it is pretty difficult to change the belief of one, who ardently and blindly believe in something. Blunt logic will try to deny everything that is against his belief system. (I am just interested in astrology and not in one’s religion, which is altogether a private affair). What PVR has done is the use of logic to link 14 lokas and 14(!!) chakras. (I have only heard about 7 chakras. Dear PVR please take time to name these 14 chakras. We would be greatly interested in knowing their name) I would again ask what is the sloka that could be quoted as authority? Conclusion Dear PVR, if we could find this much inconsistencies and weak links in a small mail written by you, how could you expect not even a single weak link in Hari’s arguments? We are taught to praise the gems even if they are found in a heap of waste. To quote your words - “Chandrahari’s writings are full of brilliant points linked by very weak links which I have to take a leap of faith to accept”. That means you are trying to find waste material from a heap of gems!! You say that “I am fully convinced that it is wrong”. Please, please don’t get convinced so easily!! You don’t even have the fullest understanding of the mathematical or theoretical foundation of Hari’s works. You haven’t even read a single book by Hari (This might be wrong, but probably right), but just some of his articles!! And you are fully convinced!! How?! I cannot but quote a sloka uchasthram sasthritham chethi dvidham pourusham smritham thathroschsthramanardhaya paramardhaya sasthritham (Yoga vasishtham) ‘There are 2 paths for will - One goes in the path of truth, and the other in the path of falsehood. The will that follows the path of truth will take you to truth, and the other to every kind of difficulty’. Discarding to the path prescribed by the ancient authorities on astrology, if you are trying to create your own path, you will end up in creating a fake-system which in due time gets discarded. Please, you are a person with genuine genius, and very knowledgeable, please don’t deviate from the path of truth, just to safeguard some beliefsystems. Let goddess Saraswathy bless us all. You can block me, or Pradeep from posting mails as you are running this forum, but you cannot block your own mind, part of which has a twist towards truth. At the end, it is good to hear your words “You and Chandra Hari seem sincere and knowledgeable. Though we have an irreconcilable and fundamental difference of view in this matter, I hope that we can continue to respect each other and remain as well wishers of each other. After all we are all pursuing the same Truth. Each individual has a separate path that one is destined to follow, before finding that same Truth!”. Sounds good. Pradeep’s sincere words are also important as it says - “Narasimhaji I request you to respect all Gurus from whom you gained knowledge. But their words are not final”. Yes because there are other paths as well!! I request other learned members to share their views. Mooladharam -2 78 Dear Prabodh, Thanks. It was thought provoking - an objective view of a real scholar. You said: > Even if accept that Mool star qualify as zodiac reference, it is not clear >to me why should it be related with Muladhar chakra. We have two things. >1) Mool Nakshatra as base of Zodiac and >2) Muladhar situated at above 2 angulas from anus and below 2 angulas from genitals. >This will be junction of Vrischick and Dhanu. So there is one-toone mapping of >Mool star and place of Muladhar chakra. But to say that Mool nakshatra is named >as Mool because it has one-to-one mapping with the place of Muladhar chakra >in Human body is not too convincing. Had it been so then possibly we might have had >more nakshatras with some resemblance to other names of chakras. But we don’t have >any such etymological reference of any nakshatra name and chakra. So it seems that it >is just a matter of coincidence that Mool nakshatra & Muladhar chakra can be mapped. >Of course I may totally wrong but if see etymological reference with one nakshatra and one >chakra then consistency of the logic will demand some etymo- logical reference with >other nakshatras and chakras. There are several things to be answered. Let us subdivide the questions into many. 1) Does Moola Star qualify to be the base of the Zodiac? If so how? 2) Who is the person that related the names of Moola star and Mooladhara? Why? 3) What are the etymological meanings of Nakshatra names? 4) Can I point to an etymological concurrency with other nakshatras and chakras? 5) What about other Chakra systems? I will try to answer these questions. 1) Does Moola Star qualify to be the base of the Zodiac? If so how? Chandrahari is a person who conducted an in-depth study of the Surya-sidhantha and the fundamental concepts from which the Rasichakram (Zodiac) originated. He found that Zodiac is Mooladhara Rahu-Sikhi Chakra. This means that the fixed reference frame called Zodiac is mathematically derived considering the rhythmical movement of Rahu and Sikhi and also by considering Moola star as a fixed reference point of zodiac division. He proves it mathematically based on Suryasidhantha. (You should remember here that we are speaking about how the fixed frame of reference called Zodiac was originally sub-divided into Signs and Stellar divisions) As per his diction“The first stellar division (first star) is Jyeshta that falls between the line joining the hypothetical Equinox line of old-Suryasidhantha (the line joining 60 deg Vernal equinox and 240 deg fiducial star Moola) and the line joining the actual Equinox line at Yugadi (line joining 46 79 deg 40 min and 226 deg 40 min). The first rasi division is (sign - Leo) falls between the line joining the hypothetical Sayana Rahu-Sikhi (line joining 300 deg Sayana-Sikhi/planetary conjunction point and 120 deg Sayana Rahu) and the hypothetical Ecliptic (line joining 330 deg and 150 deg) of Old-Suryasidhantha. Thus forms the Zodiac with stars 13 deg 20 min each and Signs with 30 deg each”. Don’t get confused. Here he is not speaking about predictive astrology, but about the mathematical division of the Zodiac. He is not saying that the first star is not Aswathi or that the first sign is not Aris. He is speaking about, ‘how that division originally occurred’. (Taking away from the context any one can miss-interpret such statements) Any one who wants to have a better understanding of Hari’s concepts should read his works. From such studies it becomes clear that Moola star qualify to be the base of the Zodiac divisions. I am fully supportive of his ideas on this because, I see no other such sincere studies based on ancient sidhanthas that comes to a clear-cut identification on - ‘how the zodiac originally got divided into signs and stellar divisions’. 2) Who is the person that related the names of Moola star and Mooladhara? Why? I never said that Moola nakshatra is named as Moola because it has one-to-one mapping with the place of Mooladhar chakra in Human body or the body of Kalapurusha. It was Hari’s concept. When the thoughts of Chandra-Hari bombarded with concepts such as Mooladhara Rahu-Sikhi Chakra and Rhythm of the universe (rhythm of solar system, biological clock, circadian rhythm etc), some other striking similarities came to his mind. Some examples would be: (i) Moola is the base of zodiac division - Mooladhara is the base point from where yoga starts. (ii) Horoscope is also called Kundalini - In yoga also Kundalini (serpent power) is important. (iii) Rahu-Sikhi (Serpents - Kalasarpa) is the underlying factor of Rasichakra - Kundalini in yoga is also symbolized as serpent. (iv) Kalapurusha is a concept in astrology - Sankhya and Yoga also speak about purusha. (v) The universe is Rhythmic - The human body is also in rhythm with universe. [This needs further clarification. Prana means 4 seconds. According to yoga and upanishads one day of a human body means 21600 prana. 3600 x 60 = 21600 min] All these similarities prompted Hari to suggest a co-relation between the Yoga/Tanthra and astrology. It was his statement that “Moola nakshatra is named as Moola because it has one-to-one mapping with the place of Mooladhar chakra of Kalapurusha”. (I would like to take my time in accepting or rejecting this co-relation of Yoga and Astrology. I am not in haste). If you go through the works of Chandrahari you will see the pain-staking efforts he has taken in making such a study. He is a truly sincere man and is an asset to the astrological community. PVR was just discarding that whole effort with the erroneous statement - “To me, Mooladhara chakra of Kala Purusha being at 240 deg or being at the end of his genitals is a totally unappealing concept. ... I know for a fact where MY Mooladhara chakra is and .........” he says that it is in his “basti (the area just above genitals)”. I was just reacting to that statement. We should respect and value a person and his efforts, if he disserves it. (Even if we agree with it or not!). PVR was violating this rule (and that also without making sufficient study of the concept), and it is to that I have reacted. [As far as I am concerned, still now I am not sure whether this Yoga/Tanthra concepts and Astrology are deeply related or not. As I would like to take my time and watch with patience what the efforts 80 of scholars like Chandrahari has in store for us as the future results of their study. I am not ready to fully support/reject the co-relations Hari points to. I may need more material, and proof to convince my mind. But I would strongly appreciate the efforts of this man, Chandrahari, in co-relating the subjects Yoga/Tantra and Astrology. Whether it turns out to be base-full/base-less is totally another issue. Even though I am not ready to fully-accept the Tantra-Astrology co-relation he is pointing to, I fully accept the rhythmic co-relation of human body and universe he points to, as it is a fundamental concept in astrology. (I reserve my further comments on such things for the future. Being a common man, on all knowledge branches, I would like to depend on ancient astrological authorities, logic, and advice of guru’s to form my opinion. On religion and ethics, I value the sound from with-in rather than authorities. But such points are not of any concern here)] 3) What are the etymological meanings of Nakshatra names? Now comes the question what are the etymological meanings to the nakshatra names? Let us look at some of the Nakshatra names. 1. Aswathi: Shows that it has 2 main stars, and that it is good for medicine related endures. 2. Bharani: Shows that once rains started in this stellar division, as the word originated from the word ‘Apa-bharani’. 3. Krithika: Shows that this group of stars has the shape of a foldable knife, and also that it contains many stars. ‘Bahula’ meaning ‘many’ is another name of this star-group. It contains many stars. 4. Rohini: means red. As per modern science it is a red-giant (an old star that was bigger than sun). It has another name ‘Prajapathi’ meaning Brahma. Brahma (the creator) was considered to be born in Rohini at the beginning of Yuga. 5. Mrigasira: Means head of a dear. It points to a Vedic story related to Brahma, and to the shape of star-group. It has another name ‘Agrahayani’ which shows that once year commenced from this star. 6. Ardra: Meaning ‘Wet’. Shows that once rain season started in this star. Its old name is ‘Bahu’ meaning ‘arms’ shows that it is one of two main stars of this group. 7. Punarvasu: Meaning ‘many bright stars’. Yes. This group contains many bright stars. 8. Pushya: Means expand. The cancer sign is also termed ‘bee hive’. Pushya is a Nebula as per modern science. It has another name ‘Devejyabham’ showing that it good for all deeds related to god. 8. Aslesha: Shows that this star together with many other stars forms the shape of a snake. It also means ‘embrace’. As per Hari, at yugadi the hypothetical line joining 300 deg Sayana-Sikhi and 120 deg Sayana Rahu was in the junction of Cancer and Leo. 9. Makha: Means King. Yema is the god of Time. This shows that Makha has some importance in the forming the stellar divisions, and Hari shows us what it is. 10. Poorva Phalguni: Means it the eastern star of the 2 main stars seen in that part of the sky. It had another name ‘Arjuni’ meaning ‘one that create clouds’ (which later get discarded), which shows that once rain season started in this stellar division. 11. Uthara Phalguni: Means the western star of the 2 main stars seen in that part of the sky. It has another name ‘Seenivali’, which as per Semitic language means ‘a tail in the sky’, and as per Sanskrit means ‘the new moon day’. This name points to some astronomical relevance. OK. The list goes on. If anybody is interested in it, I will supply the full. I think this much is sufficient to point to the fact that the etymological connotation has some importance always. 81 4) Can I point to an etymological concurrency with other nakshatras and chakras? The answer is - No, I can’t see. It may be a weak link in Hari’s argument. That is, of the three main arguments, such as, 1) Moola is the root star considered for zodiac division. 2) Moola has a co-relation with Mooladhara and thus to Tantra 3) There is a rhythmic co-relation between the human body and the universe. One can argue that, the 2nd argument is probably weak, in the absence of etymological reference relating other nakshatras and chakras. (But we shouldn’t forget that Hari supplies much supplementary data for the co-relation of astrology and Tantra. There might/ might-not evolve further study results that might undermine our primary judgment) Also remember that, this doesn’t undermine the eligibility of Moola to be the root star of Zodiac division, as that part is proved mathematically based on Suryasidhantha. 5) What about other Chakra Systems? Prabodhe Venkhande says >As regarding chakras, I don’t know much as I am not well read but I remember in >Valmiki Ramayan in the first Vanavasa of Shri Ram and Laxyamana, >rishi Vishwamitra taught them following Chakras. >1) Dandachakra 2) Dharmachakra 3) Kalachakra 4) Vishnuchakra 5) Indrachakra. >We know that Indrachakras are nothing but 7 chakras in the jeevatma >which begin with Muladhar and end at Sahastrakar. It is said that true yogi will >experience all these chakras....while doing abhyasa. I have no knowledge of this >but just wanted to indicate that there is a reference in Valmiki Ramayana of the >chakras other than usual Indrachakras. I am not am expert in this Chakra business. It is only when you say, I understand that the 7 chakras are also called Indrachakra. I should borrow your words - “I don’t know much”, I was just reacting to a situation from within my knowledge. I would expose my inability regarding this chakras1) Dandachakra - may be something related to rule or torture. (who knows?!) 2) Dharmachakra - may be something related to truth or nature of something. Or might be something in Indian flag!! 3) Kalachakra - It should be the Jyothischakra (i.e. The Zodiac) 4) Vishnuchakra - Something in Vishnu’s hand. Also called Sudarsanachakra. (Am I right?!) 5) Indrachakra - You told me that it is the 7 chakras from Mooladharam to Sahasraram. See, It is my level of knowledge in such subjects!! Is there any relation between these chakras? It would be a great possibility!! If anybody knows about these chakras in detail, please let me know. I would be much interested in learning. I apologize for my inefficiencies, Let Goddess Saraswathy bless us all, With warm regards, Sreenadh 82 PART - III True Ayanamsa (A review of the views of chandra-hari as depicted in his book Rasichakram published in Malyalam) Introduction Chandra-Hari has written 3 books on Ayanamsa. 1) A small book in English with the name “True Ayanamsa” published around 1994 when the idea originated. 2) A Book named “Rasichakram” in Malayalam published in 1996. 3) A very big book named “Hindu Zodiac and Ancient Astronomy” in English published around 2003 (Sri Sabarigiri Publications, Kadapra PO, Kumbanadu, Kerala, India, Pin-689547 Price: Rs.600/-) In book named Rasichakram he postulates: Zero Ayanamsa year - AD.238; Ayanamsa - 46| more than Lahari. But in his book “Hindu Zodiac and Ancient Astronomy” he modifies his arguments and postulates: Zero Ayanamsa year - AD.231; Ayanamsa - 44| more than Lahari. I have tried my level best to compile his ideas in a systematic manner, keeping the continuity of the mathematical concept and the thought process involved. The mathematical portion of the ideas introduced by Chandra-Hari about the ayanamsa inherent in Suryasidhantha and his ideas about the Rasi-chakra division is depicted. Rasi-Chakram (Book by Chandra-Hari) In this book Hari proposes that Zero Ayanamsa Year is AD.238 and that his ayanamsa is more than that of Lahari by 46|. Basic Rationale 1: The zodiac originated mathematically, considering the revolution of the nodal points Rahu and Sikhi. Thus Ra-Si chakra is an abbreviation for Rahu-Sikhi Chakra. The rotation of these nodes is in rhythm with the movement of equinox, if we consider the duration required for precession of 3600. [i.e. 25758 years means 1385 nirayana revolutions of Rahu-Sikhi. i.e. Nirayana revolution period of Rahu = 6792.977 days] Theoretically, or by intuition, he gives the following maths: Rate of precession (of equinox) per year = 3600/25758 = 1200/8556=50||. 31446541 He says that, this (the importance of these numbers) can also be proved, considering the modern values of Nirayana and Sayana years. For example: Nirayana Year = 365.2563625 (Modern value) Sayana Year = 365.24219 (Modern value) The difference between 8586 sayana days and 8586 nirayana days = -121.684 days i.e. precession of equinox in 8586 years = 1190.56| = 1200 [This also indicates that the year length used in old-suryasidhantha is little different. The year-length considered in old-suryasidhantha is 365.25875 days. The “why” of it would be explained in Rationale 4] Using the above method we can also prove that 25758 nirayana years is equal to 25759 sayana years. Basic Rationale 2: The importance of yuga numbers is that they are precession seconds (in precession circle). Kali-yuga = 432,000|| = 120 x 3600|| = 1200 = 8586 Years This holds good if and only if, this period contains the complete revolutions of the 7 planets and the nodes (Rahu-Sikhi). To prove it he gives the following table. The importance of the number 8586 is emphasized. 83 Complete-revolution & Nirayana-revolution Period Planet In Quarter Yuga Nirayana rev. period (8586 years) (Modern Value) Sun 8586 In Maha Yuga Kalpa Vernal 1200 Equinox (0.333...) (85860 years) (86546880 years) 1147841147840 Jupiter 4331.675 Satern 291 revolutions revolutions revolutions = 2400 precession = 17172 Tretha-yuga = 1,296,000|| = 3600 precession = 25758 Kritha-yuga = 1,728,000|| = 4800 precession = 34344 years 45650 46015614 35649 356498 724 432,000,0|| x 1008 years 686.9860082 686.9860082 686.9798274 686.97982 87.97136 432,000,0|| years (27d07h43m11.6s) Mercury 432,000|| Dwapara-yuga = 864,000|| 1157023263 (27d07h43m11.55s) 4565 (3360) Kali-yuga = 432,000|| = 120 x 3600|| = 1200 = 8586 Years 27.32167486 27.32167486 27.32166204 27.3216615 Mars (3.333...) Thus we see that, yuga numbers could actually mean precession seconds. Therefore, now we could say, 85860 86546880 365.2563624 365.2563624 365.2563624 365.2563624 Moon 12000 359350528 87.969389 7238 Manuvanthara = 864000 precession 87.969256 7296284 4332.8144 2915 87.9692559 4332.5888 Maha-yuga = 4,320,000|| = 12000 precession = 85860 nirayana years 4332.589 2938110 Kalpa = 33600 precession Theoretically all this means that, each yuga-pada (8586 years) starts and ends in a new-moon day, and that at the start and end of each yuga-pada a solar eclipse occurs. (But it actually does not happen. The “why” of it would become clear when we see rational 4) 10776.94546 10758.46013 10759.22908 10759.23 Venus 13957 13567 140683961 Basic Rationale 3: Kali-yugadi Ayanamsa is 460 40| 224.6966488 224.7914787 224.7007998 224.70080 Rahu 461.5 4616 6795.430 4653263 6793.9582 6793.46934 6793.469 [He depends on the story that the birth of Brahma was in Rohini Nakshathra. Rohini was also praised as Prajapathi, i.e. Brahma, in Vedas] i.e. Vernal equinox at the beginning of Kali-yugadi = 460 40| 84 Therefore, Zero Ayanamsa years (elapsed) = 460 40| x (8586/ 1200) = 3339 Here a striking similarity attracts our attention. 3339 is an Rig-vedic number. Rig-veda (3.9.9) says of “3339 devas who worship Agni”. If Agni really means vernal equinox, then this could mean, “the vernal equinox is 3339 years away from zero point”. i.e. After 3339 kali years the sayana and nirayana zodiacs super conjuncts. Whether depend on the above maths or on the Rigvedic statement, we arrive at the same conclusion. Kali Yuga (Beginning) + 3339 = Zero Ayanamsa Year 3102 BC = - 3101 AD i.e. - 3101 AD + 3339 = AD. 238 = 240 33| 22||. 52 Lahari (Chithra-paksha) Ayanamsa of 1995 = 230 47| 30|| Difference = Hari Ayanamsa - Lahari Ayanamsa = 46| i.e. Hari Ayanamsa is 46| more than that of Lahari. In other words if we subtract 46| from the sputa arrived at by using Lahari ephemeris, we would get sputa based on Hari Ayanamsa. Hari does not stops here - he goes on to prove how the zodiac was divided into Rasis (Signs) and Nakshathras (Stars), based on the fiducial star Moola (2400), 108 divisions of Nakshathras (30 20| each), and the above said actual position of vernal equinox at Kali-yugadi (460 40|). For this, two new ideas are introduced, and he dives deep into old-suryasidhantha to prove them. i.e. Zero Ayanamsa Year = AD.238. Thus the definite formula for determining the ayanamsa of any year would be: Ayanamsa for the year (Y) Degrees. = (Y-238) x (1200/8586) = (Y-238)/71.55 Degrees. Here another striking similarity attracts our attention. The Number of human heartbeat per minute is 71 or 72. It might be possible that 71.55 is the actual value of the heartbeat for a person. If so, we could also prove that the rhythm of the universe and the biological clock in humans are mutually related. The biological clock, circadian rhythm etc comes into consideration. Thus the author points out. Example for calculating ayanamsa for any year: Hari Ayanamsa (1995) = (1995 - 238)/71.55 = 24.55625437 Basic Rationale 4: (i) Zodiac is considered and presented as a mathematical model in old-suryasidhantha, trying to comprehend the perfect rhythm of the universe. (ii) Even though the creator of Surya-sidhantha (i.e. Mayan), knew about the actual vernal equinox at Kali-yugadi (i.e. 460 40||), Kali-yugadi-Ayanamsa was considered as 600 (in Surya-sidhantha), for the perfection of this mathematical model. According to the precession considered in old-suryasidhantha: Precessional Cycle = 21600 years (instead of 25758 years) If we relate this to yuga years 432000 (Kali-yuga) = 21600 x 20 4,320,000 (Maha-yuga) = 21600 x 200 Maha-yuga = 200 x 3600 = 72000 years 85 1200 precession = 4320000/600 = 7200 years (instead of 8586 Years) If we divide the number of revolution of planets in a mahayuga with 600, we could get the number of revolutions of planets per 7200 years. Thus we get Sun = 4,320,000/ 600 = 7200.00 Mars = 296824/600 = 3828.04 Jupiter = 364200/600 = 607.033 Venus = 7022388/600 = 11703.98 Mercury = 17937000/600 = 29895.00 Rahu = 232226/600 = 387.0433 Here the results are very near to whole numbers. That means in 7200 years the mean values for planets complete, whole number of revolutions. If we consider little bigger period, for example take, 7200 x 25 = 4320000/24 = 180000 years, we could prove that it contain whole number of revolutions. [The above mentioned proof, is not given in Hari's book named Rasi-chakram. But I think anybody could verify it, as the logic is straightforward. About not giving the number of complete revolution for Moon and Satern in mahayuga also Hari gives some reasons, which I could not grasp] As according to old-suryasidhantha, all the revolution numbers of planets are whole numbers and multiples of 24, this means that, in 180000 years, the mean positions of planets conjuncts at zeropoint. This is a concept fundamental of vedic astronomy. Suryasidhantha relates the imaginary mean positions of planets at the start of yuga with the actual planetary positions that will occur after 3600 years. As Surya-sidhantha takes 4320000 as Maha-yuga the Pre- cessional Cycle (i.e. for 3600) becomes 21600 years. Thus it necessitates vernal equinox to be at 600 in the beginning of Kali-Yuga (instead of 460 40|). If you compare with the actual data, you may feel that it is an error. But in reality it is precious mathematical model. The Precessional Cycle is a Mathematical model put forward by the creator of Surya-sidhantha. What was the need of such a model? It was to relate the yugadi mesha-sankranthi with the new moon day that all these mathematical exercise was done. For this, the mesha-sankranthi at the beginning of yuga, was considered to happen, 9 days and 37 nadis before (90 37|). For that only nirayana year with length 365.25875 was chosen. It was not because that he doesn’t know the actual nirayana year length. The actual precession according to Surya sidhantha was 50||. How can we know that the year length used in Surya-sidhantha is 365.25875 days? According to Old-Suryasidhantha The Average Number of days in a Maha-Yuga = 1577917800 days One Maha-yuga means = 4,320,000 years Therefore Year-Length = 1577917800/4320000 = 365.25875 days This calculation is approved by almost everybody, including the calendar reform committee headed by Saha. [Really I couldn’t figure out how he got that “the actual precession considered by Surya-sidhantha is 50||”. There might be a sufficient reason. But I don’t know what it is] All this means that first stellar division (first star) is Jyeshta that falls between the line joining the hypothetical Equinox line of oldSuryasidhantha (the line joining 600 Vernal equinox and 2400 fiducial star Moola) and the line joining the actual Equinox line at Yugadi (line joining 460 40| and 2260 40|). The first rasi division is (sign - Cancer) 86 falls between the line joining the hypothetical Sayana Rahu-Sikhi (line joining 3000 Sayana-Sikhi/planetary conjunction point and 1200 Sayana Rahu) and the hypothetical Ecliptic (line joining 3300 and 1500) of Old-Suryasidhantha. Thus forms the Zodiac with stars 130 20| each and Signs with 300 each. Why Hari Jumped to Thanthra and Proposes that Zodiac is Thanthric? When the thoughts of Chandra-Hari traveled up to this, and bombarded with these concepts such as Mooladhara Rahu-Sikhi Chakram and Rhythm of the universe (music of the stars or biological clock - what ever you name it), some other striking similarities came to his mind. Some examples would be: (i) Moola is the base of zodiac division - Mooladhara is the base point from where yoga starts. (ii) Horoscope is also called Kundalini - In yoga also Kundalini (serpent power) is important. (iii) Rahu-Sikhi (Serpents - Kalasarpa) is the underlying factor of Rasichakra - Kundalini in yoga is also symbolized as serpent. (iv) Kalapurusha is a concept in astrology - Sankhya and Yoga also speak about purusha. (v) The universe is Rhythmic - The human body is also in rhythm with universe. [This needs further clarification. Prana means 4 seconds. According to yoga and upanishads one day of a human body means 21600 prana. 3600 x 60 = 21600|. Also consider the above said importance of the number 71.55] All these similarities prompt him to dive deep into concepts such as Tanthra/Yoga and Circadian-rhythm/Biological-clock etc. Let Hari’s concepts be right or wrong - shouldn’t we appreciate his efforts? Conclusion: In the view of Chandra-Hari: (i) The yuga concept is nothing but a deep-seated theory on ayanamsa. That is why it was given this much importance by OldSurya-sidhantha (By Mayan, Included in Pancha-sidhantika by Varaha-Mihira), New-Surya-sidhantha (By Aryabhatta I), the Epics and Puranas. (ii) Rasi-chakram (Zodiac) is a mathematical model, put forward by Rishis, which postulates the existence of a Sidereal (Nirayana) Zero-point (Meshadi or Aswinyadi), as well as the conjunction of 8 planets at this zero-point in the beginning of every yuga. (iii) The Sayana-Nirayana division is deep seated in Hindu mythology and the Vedas gives ample proof of this. (This point is clarified at the end of this article) Both the Sayana and Nirayana systems existed in Vedic period. (Mayan the creator of Surya-sidhantha was only a genius compiler of the then prevailing knowledge) Let me mention one more point as well (taken form the book Rasichakram). In the first hymn of purusha-suktha, i.e., “sahasra seersha purusha sahasraksha sahasra path.....”, a man with 1000 heads and 1000 eyes and 1000 legs is mentioned. But really, as everybody knows, 1000 heads needs 2000 eyes and 2000 legs. i.e., the meaning of the word Sahasra = 1000, does not fit well. (We may escape the confusion by saying that Sahasra means ‘many’) Based on sathapatha brahmana some scholars (I will send the name of the scholar in the next mail), say that Sahasra means ‘circle’. This is note worthy. Then suddenly we become aware that many astronomical terms are used in the hymn. The following picture clarifies this point. (This picture is taken from Chandra-Hari’s book Rasi-chakram). Now we could see that:Seersha Circle (Sahasra seersha purusha) = Prime meridian 87 Aksha Circle (Sahasraksha) = Celestrial Equator Patha Circle (Sahasrapath) = Nodal Circle Bhoomi Circle (Sa-Bhoomim) = Horizon Viswa Circle (Viswatho vrithva) = Ecliptic Now, if this interpretation by Hari is right, we gets ample proof for the fact that, Vedic Knowledge is really amazing. Note: - Hari is a genuine genius, who argues vigorously about the concepts he believes in. We should admit his true dedication towards astrological research. We are all searching for the truth of astrology, and are trying to be sincere as much as possible. I am not trying to become an advocate of Chandra-Hari. But, I feel passionate towards his mathematical concepts. Some passing thought that occur in my mind: Based on any point on the zodiac circle, a truly dedicated person (to astrology) can create a system that gives accurate results for a short period (KP system, Different ayanamsas all comes to my mind). But if that should hold true for a long time (i.e., even generation after generation - up to thousands of years), it should be based on some point in the zodiac circle that has some unique importance. Only Zero-point proposed by the Nirayana (Sidereal) Zodiac and Vernal/ Autumnal Equinox of the Sayana Zodiac holds true in this situation. That is why only these two systems i.e., (i) Nirayana (Sidereal) predictive astrology and (ii) Sayana predictive astrology Prevailed in the Vedic period. We should also go-back and re-invent the same. Both of them are valid (with a vedic foundation) and useful in predicting human destiny. (Hari is not supportive of this idea and all his arguments are in favor of just the sidereal zodiac) Ayanamsa -Zero Ayanamsa Year (Views of Chandrahari as per the book ‘Hindu Zodiac’) Introduction This article is an effort to compile the mathematical concepts of Chandrahari, related to Zero ayanamsa year as presented in his book ‘Hindu Zodiac’. I have tried my level best to keep the continuity of the mathematical concepts and thought process involved. The following are some of the constants used in the derivation. Y = 365.258756 days (Solar year of Suryasidhantha) Ys = 365.256450 days (Modern sidereal year - AD.500) Y| = 365.24219 days (Modern tropical year) // It changes always [The tropical year-length undergoes constant change. What is the formula to find Tropical year length?] Words used Zodiac = The fixed stellar background. The substratum over which the Calendar phenomena occurs. The fixed reference against which movements are validated. Calendar phenomena = Many movements such as movement of equinoxes, moon phases, movements of Sun and Planets etc. All this helps to assess time (calandaram), and that is why the word Calendar. (People used to mix-up the above two. Zodiac and Calendar phenomena are entirely different things) Meshadi/Aswinyadi = Starting point of Aris/Starting point of the stellar division Aswathi (Both of them coincide) Ahargana = Number of days counted from Kali-yugadi. Moola = The fiducial star located at 2400 (λ-Scorpi) 88 Ayanamsa = Distance from Vernal-equinox to Meshadi Kaliyugadi = Beginning of Kaliyuga. (K0 = 17/18 February 3102 BC) Precession = Movement of Vernal-equinox ation. They are 1) Kali-year beginning - The technical term used to refer to this is Chaitradi. That is the year begins in Chaitra-sukla-prethipada (It means that not only Sun but Moon also should be there in Meshadi) Sexagesimal system = The division of a circle in to multiples of 60. 2) Meshadi (starting point of Aris) Tropical (Sayana) months = Madhu, Madhva,... etc. 3) Vernal Equinox Sidereal (Nirayana) months = Chaitra, Visakha,... etc Basic concepts In his book ‘Rasichakram’ itself Hari has given sufficient evidence for the following two concepts. Therefore in the book ‘Hindu Zodiac’, he jumps to the next issue to be solved, i.e. Fixing of the Zero ayanamsa year, in which anomalies pops up. The Basic concepts are 1) Moola is the fiducial star used for zodiac division, and stellar division. The starting point of Aris is 1200 away from the fiducial star Moola. 2) The position of vernal equinox at the beginning of Kali-yuga = 46 40| 0 [This means that we can calculate the Ayanamsa of any year by taking the point 1200 away from Moola star (λ-Scorpi) as the starting point of Aris (Meshadi/Aswinyadi). So the question “What is the ayanamsa to be used?” is already answered] If these basic concepts are taken for granted, the remaining question to be answered is “Which is the Zero ayanamsa year?”. Let us try to answer this question. The 3 Entities While considering the rhythm of Equinox and sun, considered by the saints and inherent in Yuga system 3 entities comes in to consider- Only a year in which all these 3 entities coincided can be taken as the Zero-Ayanamsa year. Concepts inherent in Suryasidhantha The mean-equinox since the beginning of Kaliyuga as per Suryasidhantha can be expressed as, Ahargana (Nth equinox) = NY+60 - N (Y-Y|) = 60+NY| ............................................(1) Where Y| is the modern tropical year = 365.242371 days (in AD.500) Mean tropical-sun (Nth Kali year) = 3600 -600 + N (Y-Y|) = 3000 + N (Y-Y|)...........(2) Hari says that, both these equations can be shown to be true by computation. At the expiry of 3623 Kali years (1323332.5 days), N (N-Yt) = 60 days and hence the mean-sun of Kali year 3623 (elapsed) coincided with the vernal equinox of K3623 or AD.522. Taking the ayanamsa of K0 to be 460 40| for the sidereal zodiac implicit in Suryasidhantha: Sidereal mean-sun = 3460 40| (Y| / 360) + N (Y-Y|) = 347d 21gh + N (Y - Ys)............(3) Where Y|/360 converts 460 40| into days. Coincidence of the sidereal and tropical zodiac requires to be equal at some year after Kali yugadi. Therefore equating (2) and (3), we 89 get 300+N (Y-Y | ) = 347 d 21 gh + ..................................................................................(4) i.e. N = 47 d 21 gh / (Y s - Y | ) ............................................................................(5) = N 3339 That means, the sidereal and tropical longitudes of sun coincided at the expiry of Kali 3339. AD.238 Vernal Equinox] does not occur? We should find out how and why this error crept into their calculations. A similar problem can be observed if we look at the years AD.499/AD.522. AD.499/AD.522 [It is the period of Aryabhata, the author of new Suryasidhantha. Some say that he compiled the work in AD.499, and some say that it was in AD.522. Some are of the opinion that these numbers have nothing to do with the year of birth or year of Aryabhateeya compilation, but that it is the zero ayanamsa year] This is the year in which sidereal and tropical longitudes of sun coincided. This is the importance of the year AD.238 (K3339). It is the zero ayanamsa year, derived by a computation across 3339 years from the epoch of Kaliyugadi. The expiry of Kali year 3623 (Ahargana = 365.25875 x 3623 = 1323332.451) coincided with the respective equinox of AD.522. But the Ahargana of 3339 Kali (elapsed) = [3339 x 365.258756 = 1219598.986284] ≈ 1219599 days do not correspond to the mean equinox, as 3339 (Y-Y|) = 55d 17gh only from Aswinyadi. Mean tropical-sun of AD.522 (K3623) - Y|) where N=3623 i.e., The sun reaches the zero point after 60d - 55d 17gh = 4 days 43 ghaties, corresponding to the Ahargana for the mean equinox of AD.238 (23rd March, Friday) that marked the coincidence of sidereal and tropical zodiacs. (365.258756 - 365.24219) | i.e. The Ayanamsa is roughly 46 more than that of Lahri Ayanamsa (Chitrapaksha ayanamsa). [It means that of the 3 entities considered 2 and 3 coincides, but not the one mentioned as 1. Why? There is some miner error. Any one may stop here and say - “why bother? The calculations matches well for the year...an error of some days only...may be caused by the calculation mistake of ancient saints”. But Hari does not stop here. He searches for the root cause of that error.] But why is it so? Why this exact coincidence of the 3 entities [1) Kali-year beginning (Chaitradi) 2) Meshadi (starting point of Aris) 3) [It can be proved by considering the equation (2). = 3600 - 600+ N (Y = 300 0 + 3623 = 300 0 + 60.018618 = 360 .018618 ≈ 360 0 0 i.e. In AD.522 vernal equinox and Kali-year beginning coincided] i.e. Of the above said 3 entities 1 and 3 coincided. As such this epoch could have represented coincidence of sidereal and tropical zodiacs (If the 3rd entity also coincides). But it does not happen. We already know that for AD.238 (K3339) the precession accounts to 460 40|. Therefore in view of the 30 58| precession between K3339 (AD.238) and K3623 (AD.522) the total precession amounts to 500 38|. To put it mathematically Total precession on AD.238 (K3339) = 460 40|. Precession for 284 years (AD.522 - AD.522) = 30 58|. 90 Total precession on AD.522 (K3623) = 460 40| + 30 58| = 500 38| As no such coincidence of points occur in AD.499, that year, even though represents the whole number K3600 is not that relevant. [Then why the year AD.499 is given this article? It is only due to some historical reason. According to popular belief it was K3600 (AD.499) rather than K3623 (AD.522) that represented the epoch of Aryabhata and led to the genesis of the solar year 365.25875 days. But Kerala tradition as well as modern astronomical computation supports K3623(AD.522). The year AD.499 has another importance. The almost zero longitude of Ravathi (Zeta Piscium) got incorporated in the Sidhantic tradition after the advent of Brahmagupta in the 7th century AD. According to CRC report, the expiry of K3600 (AD.499) very nearly coincided with vernal equinox of that year. These are all just historical importance of the year AD.499] AD.285 What is the importance of this year? If we stick to the basic prepositions such as, 1) Moola is the base of Rasi and Nakshathra division. 2) Kaliyugadi position of vernal equinox = 460 40|. Does any coincidence of earlier mentions 3 entities occur at that time? No. According to CRC, the only thing of importance is that in AD.285 vernal equinox was opposite Chithra star. [There is another point to be considered which will be revealed later] AD.231 Even though the treatises like Aryabhateeya (Kalakriyapada-verse 11) declares Chaitra-sukla-prethipada (Chaitradi) as the beginning of the year and the greater divisions of time such as Yuga, Kalpa etc., neither of the Sidhantic epochs, say of Suryasidhantha or Aryabhateeya satisfied this stipulation. It must be remembered here that even Vedanga-Jyotisa had a computational epoch beginning from Sukla-pratipada that coincided with the winter solstice. Obviously when the year beginning had a shift to the vernal equinox it must have taken place at a coincidence of the vernal equinox with the Chaitrasukla-prethipada. In the absence of such a tradition there was no reason for the Sidhantic astronomers to ascribe a beginning for the year and Yugadi with the Chaitra-sukla-prethipada. It is apparent that the intricacy may be because of the redactions undergone by the Sidhantic treatises around AD.500 in which the original epoch of Sidhantic astronomy might have got obliterated. On examining the luni-solar configuration of the vernal equinoxes around AD.233, the following astronomical data strikes our attention. The vernal equinox of AD.231 precisely satisfied all the aforementioned astronomical factors that would have truly characterized the original Sidhantic epoch and year beginning with Chaitra-suklaprethipada. Epoch: 21 March 231AD, Monday 15 30 UT (2033 Ujjain LMT), Vernal Equinox coincided with Chaitra-sukla-prethipada. JD [TDT]: 1805510.22908. Moola (λ-Scorpi) precisely had a longitude of 2390 58| ≈ 2400 from the vernal equinox. New moon took place on Monday at 1035UT or Ujjaini LMT for JD [TDT] = 1805510.0238655. Tuesday coinciding with the Sukla-pratipada marked the beginning of Chaitra at Ujjain. The epochs K0 and K3332 corresponded to JD [TDT] of 588466.34939 and 1805510.372718 respectively. In terms of UT the epochs were separated by 1217045 days = 1217045 days = 3332 x 365.2596038 i.e. 3332 anomalistic years. Notice the fact that this year satisfies the above said condition of the coincidence of 3 entities. [Still the reasons for the calculation deviation from AD.231 to AD.238 remain to be identified. We should also find out the anomalies that caused this deviation from AD.231 to AD.238] AD.233 (Considering Moola’s fiducial role) 91 Moola has a fixed longitude of 2400 over the sidereal zodiac. As can be seen in Indian Astronomical Ephemeris the proper motion of Moola can be taken as zero and accordingly Moola had it’s sidereal and tropical longitude equal to 2400 at the vernal equinox of AD.233. (UT: 21 March 233, 03:23; JD [TDT] = 1806240.72368). Ayanamsa as such may be computed either from the vernal equinox of AD.233 or by subtracting 2400 from the modern tropical longitude of λ-Scorpi. On 2nd July 2000 the tropical longitude of λ-Scorpi is 240 35| 33.76||. Alternatively, if we take the vernal equinox of AD.231 coincident with Chaitra-sukla-prethipada as marking the zero point the ayanamsa will be 240 37|. | i.e. The Ayanamsa is roughly 44 more than that of Lahri Ayanamsa (Chitrapaksha ayanamsa). [The Chaitra-sukla-prethipada condition (entity 1) is not satisfied when AD.233 is accepted] AD.231 is better than AD.233 as all the 3 entities coincide. If we consider Moola’s fiducial role as well, Ayanamsa should be roughly 44| more than that of Lahari ayanamsa. Now let us go back to the original question. Why this exact coincidence of the 3 entities does not occur in AD.238 (K3339)? Movement of Nirayana Zero-point It is apparent from equation (2) that the mean tropical sun coincided with vernal equinox of K3623 for the solar year-length of 365.25875 days. As a result of the continued use of this extra-long sidereal year the zero point had a progressive movement towards east by 0.00239 days per year. Could it be the cause of error in calculation? [The precession of equinox is approximately 50|| per year. But there is continuous change in precession speed. According to modern science precession speed of AD.285 is 49.9049 and of AD.2100 is 50.3132. It means that there is a change of 0.0222226|| in 100 years. Could it be cause?] Earlier it was said that - ‘There is another point to be considered which will be revealed later’. It will be discussed here. The eastward progress of the Sidhantic zero point touched the point opposite Chithra (or vernal equinox of AD.285), only towards the end of 19th century i.e., near about AD.1885. The Sidhantic panchangas (ephemeris) of this period (for e.g. Vakya-panchanga that prevailed over South India) therefore had their zero point falling opposite Chithra by accident and consequently the modern astronomical tropical longitude of sun and the corresponding Sidhantic sidereal value had the difference equal to an ayanamsa based on Chithra’s opposite point. At this point I think it won’t be irrelevant to present a statement Hari made in a letter to me. “When you don’t know about the secular variation rate of precession, accept what others say? For ayanamsa how you are concerned about the year AD.231 or AD.238. Do you know that Chithra-paksha is no longer based on AD.285? AD.285 is the value of zero year based on the astronomical knowledge of AD.1956 or so. Till the advent of the new theories, when ever precession was accounted a few years difference for zero value (of year) was normal. AD.238 is the value derived by a computation across 3339 years from the epoch of Kaliyugadi. But there the Chaitradi (Kali-year beginning) does not coincide with zero. Zero coincidence of Chaitradi is in AD.231. These are all intricacies related to ancient Calendar. Unless you read thoroughly about ancient Indian astronomy and its computations, you may not grasp the intricacies. Continue the study; keep the doubts in mind and as you progress in your studies you will understand. Everything cannot be made simple by correspondence.” I truly agree with those statements. An unending search for the truth of astrology, and its true foundations is necessary, for the acceptance of astrology as a science. Chadrahari’s search for correct zero ayanamsa year also continues. We will wait for worthy knowledge that would be revealed by this scholar in his search for truth of astrol- 92 ogy. [What ever be the zero ayanamsa year, one should also remember that - “The zero ayanamsa year is not the year in which astrology originated”. Fixed zodiac with Moola as fiducial star, Ayanamsa, Zero ayanamsa year etc are all mathematical concepts and therefore the origin of astrology could be either before or after the zero ayanamsa year such as AD.231. But the stellar divisions are mentioned in Vedas, and as every historian agrees that Vedas are written before BC.1500, we can be sure that the Zodiac was in use far before the zero ayanamsa year. This was possible only because of the fact that Zodiac is a mathematical concept (A fixed reference frame based on which movements could be evaluated). Chandrahari’s idea is that the formation of Sidereal zodiac originated in BC.4137 among the Tantric cults of PreAryan (Pre-Vedic) origin (Sarawathy River Valley Civilization/Sidhu Civilization). This idea of Hari is not discussed here; at it is not relevant for understanding Ayanamsa and Zero-Ayanamsa year]. Is there any empirical testable method to ascertain the accuracy of Hari’s Ayanamsa? In the words of Einstein - “In order to be able to consider a theory a physical theory, it is only necessary that it implies empirically testable assertion in general”. Is the Ayanamsa of Chandrahari such a one? Yes, it is. In the astrological context 1) In Mrithyubhaga research ayanamsa is very important. 2) Sputa (Nirayana planetary longitudes) of all planets, Birth time rectification, Desa systems, Varga Systems etc all depend on the accuracy of Ayanamsa, and is affected by any change in it. 3) But the best possible assertion could be the testing of the hypothesis “Rhythm of the Universe is in tune with the rhythm of breath pattern”. (The equivalence of Microcosm and Macrocosm) Although this Ayanamsa hypothesis has very good mathematical and theoretical foundation, to verify the trustworthiness of this Ayanamsa, we need to concentrate our studies in the above-mentioned 3 areas. [That is why Chandrahari jumped into studies such as 1) Mrithyubhaga Research 2) Microcosm - Macrocosm equivalence concept in Tanthra. 3) Biological - Circadian rhythm etc] Conclusion Hari is calling for the support of every learned astrologer, who is searching for the truth of astrology. Why he needs help? In his own words - “To strikeout a new path in this labyrinth is a difficult task and no single author however resourceful he may be unable to adequately support each and every one of his sentences or arguments by quoting appropriate authorities”. It is said that once you catch the tail of a tiger you cannot leave it!! I would elaborate. It revealed to Chandrahari that there are some fundamental mathematical concepts behind the Nirayana zodiac. (He started studying the subject). Then there came the necessity of refining those mathematical concepts (Again through study of the connected subjects became a necessity). Now comes the stage of giving empirical proof for the trustworthiness of his mathematical theory on Ayanamsa. (The study continues - and he always comes out with some fruitful results!) This man is a true learner. A truth seeker!... Let this man continue his studies... This is the research path by which astrology may get accepted as a science one day. So encourage this person and say “Go on...thousands are behind you...” Kunda - Birth time Rectificaion Introduction 93 Kunda Multiplication method can be used for Birth time rectification. The word ‘Kunda’ originated from Paralper system (Assigning numbers to Alphabets) of Kerala. In which Ka=1 and Nda =8. When alphabets are used to write numbers, digits should be written in reverse order. (Sankhayanam Vamatho gathi). Therefore, Kunda = 81. What is the importance of this number? 81 = 9 x 9. It shows the Navamsa-Navamsa. (It is better to use the word Navamsa-Navamsa/ Nava-Navamsa to refer to Kunda. As the word Kunda has got a Kerala regional origin, and as it just notates a number, I am not supportive to Chandrahari’s idea of relating Kunda to Kundalini) The questions to be answered are: 1) Where this method originated? (What is the authentic sloka connected with this method?) of Vraha-hora), the astrologers consider the trine stars of NavamsaNavamsa as well. Asc shows the body, and Moon (birth-star) shows the mind. A combined effort of these two is necessary for a birth to take place. That is why the acharya says that both of them should be related to each other. (Another factor to be considered is the rhythm of the day. That is where the Pancha-tatva comes into play) The Presnamarga acharya is asking us to apply this method in Presna. Can it be applied for birth-time rectification in Horoscope? From where Presnamarga acharya got this method? The root of this method lies in Varaha-hora. In the words of Mihira“Tathkalamindu sahitho dwirasamsako yasthathulya rasi sahitho purathassasanke 2) How it should be used? (How it should be applied?) yavanudethi dina-rathri samanabhaga- 3) How much rectification can be attained with this method? sthavathgathe dinaniso prevadanthi jenma” 4) What are the demerits of this method? Let us try to answer these questions. Method One of the authentic references we see about this method is on Presnamarga. It says, “Kundanikhne pridhak legne prashtre thara na chethbhaveth Kshipthva kaschith kalasthekthva(aa)neyam prashtre jenmabham” ‘If the resultant longitude, of Asc x 81 falls on the birth-star of the qurent, then the Asc is correct. If it doesn’t, increase or decrease some minutes to the Asc and again multiply with 81, and see whether it falls on the birth-star of the qurent’. According to the statement ‘Trikonagananam sarvathra yojyam’ (You should consider trine stars always) in Desadhyani (a famous vyakhya of Varaha-hora) and Hridyapadha (another famous vyakhya This sloka has many meanings. Kunda calculation is one of the interpreted meanings from this sloka. ‘Rasas’ are 9 in number. (Nava rasa) Therefore ‘Dwiramsaka’ means 9 x 9 =81. Therefore one of the meanings would be ‘If Asc x 81 is equal to the birth-star then it is the birth-time’. Therefore, now we can say that this method can also be applied in horoscopes. But from where Mihira got this method? The root text is Sounaka hora. In the words of the great saint Sounaka “Yedrasi samjcha aadhane seethamso syannavamsaka navamsaka navamso va soothi sthathsdhepi va vidhou” This sloka has the same meaning as included by Mihira in his sloka. Now we are sure that it is an authentic method, put forward by the great saints, for the rectification of birth-time. What are the propositions of this method? The Navamsa-Navamsa (Kunda) takes 18 min to make a com- 94 plete revolution of the zodiac. As we are considering the trine-stars, to cover 9 stars it takes 18/3 = 6 min. Therefore, the maximum correction we can attain by using this method is half of 6 min. i.e. (plus or minus) 3 min. If we stick to the preposition that birth-star should come in the trine-star of Kunda-sputa (Longitude of Navamsa-Navamsa), one or two ideas comes to our notice. They are1) No two birth can take place within an interval of 6 min. In other words, in the case of twins, there would be 6 min. difference between the birth times. (Only in the case of Siamese twins this law should be violated) 2) As the methods for sex determination from horoscopes are given in authentic texts (we can determine whether the child is boy or girl from birth-time/horoscope itself), it means that, Siamese twins should be either both boys or both girls. No Siamese twins with one of them boy and other girl would occur. (As it is a fact we know, it could be taken as a fact for the worth fullness of Navamsa-Navamsa theory) Such strong assertions pointed to by this method should be tested scientifically. If found false, we should drop this method, and search for more reliable/authentic/rational methods. In Hari’s words, ‘It all points to a rhythmic correlation between the revolution of earth (Asc) and the movement of Moon (birth-star)’. As the whole astrology is concerned with ‘the inter-connectedness of the rhythm of the universe with human/mundane destiny’, it is not only a possibility, but also a plausible research field. What are the limitations of this method? Some of the limitations of this method are 1) It only helps for (plus or minus) 3 min. correction in birth-time. So if there is an error of more than 3 minutes, Kunda multiplication method won't be of any use. 2) Authentic texts such as Skanda hora (by god Subrahmanya), Brihath prajapathyam (by Deksha prajapathi), Sounaka hora, Presnarethnam, Presnamarga etc postulates the ‘Varga chathushtaya’ theory for birth-time rectification. The Varga-chathushtaya (4 Vargas) include a) Navamsa (Asc x 9) b) Navamsa-Navamsa (Asc x 81) c) Dwadesamsa (Asc x 12) d) Navamsa-Dwadesamsa (Asc x 108) According to this theory, of the above 4 vargas, the trine-star of two or more should coincide with birth-star. The Skanda-hora statement “Dridam dwi bahu samvadath sarvam vidhi dwijothama” ‘If two or more methods point to the fact that the birth-time is correct, then accept that as the correct time’, is supportive of this. Navamsa-Navamsa (Kunda) is just one of these methods. Conclusion If you are using JHora software, you will see that separate options for Nava(msa)-Navamsa and Kunda are given. The longitudes arrived at by both are different, and both of them does not seem to be correct. It seems that PVR’s understanding of Kunda (NavamsaNavamsa) is clumsy. Otherwise, why should there be two separate options for Kunda and Navamsa-Navamsa in JHora software? Hope that PVR ji will come out with some sufficient explanation. We should always take the side of truth. This statement is especially true in the case of astrological research. At times we might be on the side of wrong arguments, and when it reveals to us that our arguments are wrong, we should be ready to revise our views. ‘Saving face shouldn’t be by sacrificing facts’. That should be the spirit of 95 the true astrologer, who is true to goddess Saraswathy. Kunda is not an ultimate method for birth-time rectification. I have done some special research on the different methods available for birth-time rectification available in ancient texts. Totally I could find 12 methods (as per ancient texts) for birth-time rectification, and for verifying whether the Asc is correct. Of these ‘Varga-chathushtaya’ and ‘Pancha-tatva methods’ are the best ones I feel. Vargachathushtaya method gives importance to the combined effort of Body (Asc) and Mind (Moon), while Pancha-tatva method gives importance to the rhythm of day. NB :- True doubts and criticisms are encouraged. I am always ready to accept new methods if they are found effective and authentic. I humbly submit this article before the scholars. "Ano bhadra krethvoyenthu viswatha" (Rig Veda) [Let knowledge come to me from all directions] -0-