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Proposal attached. I would be grateful for any views. Thanks Ron NOTE NEW ADDRESS Prof Ron P Smith, Department of Economics, Birkbeck College, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX Tel 44 (0)20 7631 6413 Fax 6416 Graduate Diploma It is suggested that the present Postgraduate certificates be changed to a one year full time or two year part time programme. The Full Time programme would be all by evening teaching so that strong students could do it in one year, while working. Part Time Route Year 1. Quantitative Techniques, QT (mathematics), 1 course unit Applied Statistics and Econometrics, ASE, 1 course unit Empirical Project, 1 course unit. There would be non-assessed introductory economics lectures available to the students, but there are already quite a lot of economic related examples in the QT and ASE. At the end of the year they could either stop with a Graduate Certificate in Quantitative Methods for Economics and Finance or proceed to one of Graduate Diploma. Year 2. Grad Dip Economics Microeconomics 1 course unit Macroeconomics 1 course unit Mathematical Economics 1 course unit Year 2 Grad Dip Finance Microeconomics 1 course unit Financial Markets 1 course unit Mathematical Finance 1 course unit There would be non-assessed revision classes in QT available to the students. Students taking the Full time route would do 6 course units in one year. This would be the same workload as the present Postgraduate Certificate in Economics. The only difference is that instead of being aggregated with ASE, the project is counted as a separated course unit. A proposal that was floated at the meeting today is attached. It seems to have advantages for the School and College. Steve, Brad, Sandeep: Do you think it is feasible? Ron NOTE NEW ADDRESS Prof Ron P Smith, Department of Economics, Birkbeck College, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX Tel 44 (0)20 7631 6413 Fax 6416 >>> Martin Ingrouille <[email protected]> 08/12/2005 17:09:11 >>> Dear Ron, You are correct in saying it is quite complicated. I may have got the following wrong and perhaps it might be quicker if we organise a short meeting to sort this out. I am not clear how "unexamined" courses can be "counted" unless in some way you record that they have made a serious attempt at these courses (i.e. assess them even if it is just for attendance though they might then score 100% and how this might be included in an overall average becomes problematic). For a PT student coming in 6-9 pm three nights a week over two terms is a normal attendance for completing 3 cus but if they also attend also for a full summer term that might add up to more cus. If students are assessed in 4.0 cu (or more) in a year they are taking a full-time programme (even if it is taken by evening classes) - and they should be valued as being worth 1.0 FTE rather than the normal undergraduate tariff of 0.75 FTE - they also should pay full-time fees. Is there a possibility of calling it a Diploma rather than an Advanced Certificate - I think a college diploma currently requires 5.0 cus though that might change in any new college-wide scheme. You might then be able to include the "non-examined" elements depending at what level C, I or H are these all taught? Martin -----Original Message----From: Ron Smith [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 07 December 2005 17:30 To: b.baxter; Shona Brown Cc: a.garratt; Diana Driscoll; F.atkins; Martin Ingrouille; s.wright Subject: Re: AdvCert Financial Engineering Dear Shona Brad passed your email to me. A reply is attached. I am afraid that it is quite complicated because of the implications for all the Postgraduate/advanced Certs. Many thanks Ron NOTE NEW ADDRESS Prof Ron P Smith, Department of Economics, Birkbeck College, Malet Street, London WC1E 7HX Tel 44 (0)20 7631 6413 Fax 6416 >>> Shona Brown <[email protected]> 21/11/2005 17:14:39 >>> Brad The proposal for a new Advanced Cert in Financial Engineering was considered at the Science and Social Sciences Degrees Committee this afternoon. I reported that I had already contacted you regarding the total value (4 modules) and that you had confirmed that the higher value was needed to prepare students for the MSc. Normally an Advanced Cert comprises 3 cu's/modules at H level. The Committee expressed concern that the total value proposed exceeds the normal part-time load and is in effect a full-time programme. This has implications for fees and funding. Could you review and clarify the values of the term 2 modules? One way forward could be to re-designate Applied Stats and Econometrics and Financial Markets as 0.5 H-level modules. This would then reduce the total value to 3. I've also looked at the soon-to-be AdvCerts in Economics/Finance/Econ&Finance and it could be that such an amendment would be advantageous for these programmes too: each 1-term compulsory module valued at 0.5, the term 3 option at 1.0 to give a total valuie of 3.0 for each award. Just a suggestion - perhaps you could discuss this, and any alternative suggestions there may be, with Stephen and Ron Smith. The Chair of the Degrees Committee, Martin Ingrouille, would also be happy to discuss the proposal with you. Once a way forward is agreed, the proposal can be re-considered at the next Degrees Committee meeting in March. Proposals for any re-designated modules can be submitted to this meeting also. Hope this makes sense Regards Shona -------------------------------------------- Shona Brown Assistant Registrar Birkbeck College Malet Street London WC1E 7HX tel 020 7631 6562 fax 020 7631 6303 [email protected] ACs Shona Brown, Diana Driscoll, Martin Ingrouille and Ron Smith met 20 December. It was proposed that subject to consultation (a) the Advanced Certificate in Financial Engineering would proceed on a transitional basis for 2006-7 (b) all the Advanced Certificates would be restructured to make them compatible with the Common Awards Structure from 2007 onwards. The present part-time Postgraduate/Advanced Certificates (ACE and ACF) and the proposed AC in Financial Engineering all require graduate entry. They have 5 units, but they also involve an empirical project in ASE, which could be counted as a unit, making the total 6. The new structure would have two awards for each. Graduate Certificate, 1 year part-time, 3 units. Graduate Diploma, 1 year full-time or 2 years part-time, 6 units. The present PCEF would be dropped, it would just be a graduate diploma. The Graduate Diploma could be done by evening study, so strong candidates could do it in one year while working (exactly as they do the present PC/ACs) but they would have to recognise that they are doing the equivalent of a full time course. The important practical issues are whether: (a) the present programmes could be reworked so that they could be done either in sequence for the two year part-time route or in parallel for the one year full time route; (b) we could design the marketing so that we did not lose good students who want to do the conversion course for the MSc in one year.