Download 1. Taylor, A. E, Plato: The Man and His Work, (London: Methuen

Plato’s Academy, a
mosaic in the Museo
Nazionale, Naples,
(Photo: Giraudon)
The Laws, Book III
Philosophy 190: Plato
Fall, 2014
Prof. Peter Hadreas
Course website:
http://www.sjsu.edu/people/peter.hadreas/cour
ses/Plato
A. E . Taylor introduces his chapter on Plato’s Laws stating:1
“The Laws is not only the longest of all of Plato’s writings, it
also contains his latest and ripest thought on the subjects
which he had all through his life most at heart -- ethics,
education and jurisprudence. Plato’s services to the theory
of education, in particular, have usually been grossly
underrated, from an inexcusable neglect of the very
thorough treatment given to it in what he probably
himself regarded as his most important work. His
theology, again, has often been misconceived in modern
times, because the tenth book of the Laws is the only place
where it is systematically expounded.”
1. Taylor, A. E, Plato: The Man and His Work, (London: Methuen & Co. Ltd.,
reprinted 1978). p. 463.
A. E . Taylor explains how political significance of Athens
politics changed by the time Plato wrote this last work:1
“Meanwhile the very existence of Hellenic civilisation was
endangered by the encroachments of Persia in the East
and Carthage in the West. It was clear that if civilization
of the Hellenic type was to hold its own, none of the older
city-states was in a condition to become its centre. We
know now that the historical solution was to be provided
by the rise of the Macedonian monarchy and the
achievement of Philip and Alexander. But the work of
Philip was only in the beginning in Plato’s last years; his
appearance south of Thermopylae as the ally of Thebes
against Phocis, the first manifest sign that a new power
had succeeded to the hegemony of the Hellenic states, did
not take place until the year after Plato’s death.”
1. Taylor, A. E, Plato: The Man and His Work, (London: Methuen & Co. Ltd.,
reprinted 1978), p. 465.
PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE1
The main characters: all three are old men.
1. An Athenian Stranger, always anonymous. He is the main
speaker and voices all the main proposals of the work. He
has astronomical and mathematical knowledge and it’s never
doubted that he is a highly suitable person for giving advice
on matters of jurisprudence and political science. At 711A we
learn that he has had personal experience of association with
a “tyrant.” This would suggest he comes, perhaps as close as
any of Plato’s characters to Plato himself
2. Megillus, a Spartan whose a spokesperson the Spartan
political traditions.
3. Clinias, a Cretan and a spokesperson for the Cretan (and
Minoan) political traditions.
1. adapted from Taylor, A. E, Plato: The Man and His Work, (London: Methuen
& Co. Ltd., reprinted 1978), p. 469.
The Topic
In Book III of the Laws, the
Athenian Stranger proposes the
genesis of political systems. In the
process he diagnoses the intrinsic
conditions of their corruption.
The Athenian Stranger proposes that
human political organizations have come
and gone over an immensely long period
of time, much longer surely than would
be recorded by historical record
“Athenian: So surely, during this period,
thousands upon thousands of states have
come into being, while at least as many,
in equally vast numbers, have been
destroyed?” p. 1365, 676C:
For the sake of beginning at the beginning of some period of
human history, the Athenian Stranger assumes a prehistorical starting point: the reconstruction of human society
after a a flood that annihilates the previous civilization. In
this thought-experiment, he conjectures that those still alive
after the flood lived on especially high ground.
“Athenian: That those who escaped the disaster must have
been pretty nearly all hill-shepherds -- a few embers of
mankind preserved. I imagine, on the tops of mountains.” p.
1365, 677A:
In this pre-historical post-deluge thought experiment, Plato
supposes that the few human who managed to survive had
lost whatever knowledge of arts and crafts they possessed.
From a positive point of view, they also had lost the capacity
for intrigue and deceptions that are required for political
success in a politically advanced society. Further they had
plenty of land available so there was no need for disputes
over territory.
Athenian: “Here’s a further point: such men must have been
in general unskilled and unsophisticated. In particular, they
must have been quite innocent of the crafty devices that citydwellers use in the rat-race to do each other down; and all
the other dirty tricks that men play against one another must
have been unknown.” (p. 1366, 677B)
Societal Development -- Stage One: Autocracy
There are no lawsuits, party strife or military devices and
techniques. Nor are there councils for debate. Humans live
on the tops of mountains and caves. Patriarchy in the
extreme arises. Each man rules his wife and children. There
is no consideration of others outside the immediate environs.
(p. 1369, 680B)
Athenian Stranger says “You can find it it many parts of the
world today both among Greeks and non-Greeks. I suppose
this is what Homer is describing in his account of the
Cyclops”. He cites Homer’s Odyssey, Book IX. 112-15) as
expression this stage:
“No laws, no councils for debate have they:
They live on the tips of lofty mountains
In hollow caves; each man lays down the law
To wife and children, with no regard to neighbor.”
"Odysseus in the Cave of Polyphemus." Painting by
Jacob Jordaens, first half of the 17th century.
Societal Development -- Stage One: Autocracy
What Plato seems to leave out in associating this age with the
Cyclops is that although the Cyclops were in a sense innocent
and ingenuous -- Polyphemus could not detect the deception
of Odysseus’ pun as Odysseus’s says he is “No one” -Polyphemus was also cannibalistic. He ate six of Odysseus’
men. Maybe in some sense, Plato is suggesting this is the
nature of the pre-historic mind, devoid even of a pre-legal
taboo of cannibalism and incest.
Societal Development -- Stage Two, Transitional
Aristocracy
“The next stage is when several families amalgamate and
form larger communities. They turn their attention to
agriculture, initially in the foothills, and build rings of dry
stones to serve as walls to protect themselves from wild
animals. The result now is a single large unit, a common
homestead.” (p. 1369, 681A)
Societal Development – Stage Three, Cities of the
Plain With Various Constitutions
“Athenian: So we can now go on to describe the birth of a
third type of political system, one which in fact admits all
systems and all their modifications and exhibits equal variety
and change in the actual states as well.” (p. 1370 681D)
Athenian Stranger continues to use Homer to illustrate the
prototype. He cites Troy as a city of the plain, which was
conquered, by the Achaians and in so doing changed their
name indicating a further political development– a stage
four: “When the exiles came back again, [i. e. Odysseus,
Agamemnon, and others] they adopted a new name, and
were now known as the Dorians instead of Achaeans, in
honor of Dorieus, who had rallied them while they were in
exile.”
Societal Development – Stage Four: “A League of
Cities”
“Athenian Stranger: “We have had a rather random
discussion about various foundation and political systems,
but we have achieved at least this much: we have watched
the first, second and third type of state being founded in
succession over a vast period of time, and now we discover
this fourth state (or 'nation,’ if you like) whose historical
foundation and development we are tracing down to its
maturity today.” (p. 1372, 683A)
Societal Development – Stage Four: “A League of
Cities”
The league of cities, which the Athenian Stranger names as
Argos, Messene and Sparta (p. 1372, 683D), swore oaths to
act according to mutually binding laws “which they adopted
to regulate the exercise of authority and obedience to it,” (p.
1373, 684B). Further the threefold balance of power provides
a check, they thought, if one power attempted to overreach
the others: “Whenever a given state broke the established
laws, an alliance of the other two would always be there to
take the field against it.” (p. 1373, 684C)
Then why did the alliance fail? Or as the Athenian Stranger
says: “Then why on earth, my friends, did this foundation
and its legislation turn out such a dismal failure?” (p. 1374,
684E
Why Was The League of Cities A Dismal Failure: The
Basic Human Flaw:
Belief in the Righteousness of Wish Fulfillment
“Athenian: Now then, this shows that there is one specific desire
common to all mankind. Isn’t this the upshot of our discussion”
Megillus: What desire?
Athenian: That events should obey whatever orders one feels like
giving -- invariably, if possible, but failing that, at least where
human affair are concerned.
Megillus: Very true. “p. 1376, 687C”
This principle does not serve humankind. Many times our
prayers should not be answered. Good deal in the son's prayers
that the father will beg the gods never to grant. Same is true of
an impulsive father. He suffers from a second childhood.
The Basic Human Flaw:
Belief in the Righteousness of Wish Fulfillment is
Further the Cause of Civil Strife in that ‘Right’ is
extended over seven incompatible claims:
1. Belief in right of parents over children and their descendants.
2. Belief in high birth over low birth.
3. Belief that elders should rule over younger.
4. Belief that masters should rule over slaves.
5. Belief that stronger should rule over weaker – as among
animals
6. Belief that wise should rule over ignorant.
7. Belief what is chosen by lots enjoys the favors of the gods and
is blessed by fortune.
Causes of Civil Strife in that ‘Right’ as Extended to
Seven incompatible claims:
Athenian Stranger: 'So you see, O legislator’ (as we might
jocularly address someone who sets about legislation with undue
optimism), 'you see how many titles to authority there are, and
how they naturally conflict with each other. Now here’s a source
of civil strife we’ve discovered for you, which you must put to
rights.’” (p. 1379, 690D)
Typical source of clash of belief in righteousness:
“Athenian: So where do we suppose this destructive process invariably starts?
Among kings or people?
Clinias: Most instances suggest that this is probably a disease of kings whose
life of luxury has made them arrogant.
Athenian: So it is clear that it was the kings of that era who were first infected
by the acquisitive spirit in defiance of the law of the land. (p. 1380, 691A)
Attempts to Work Out Beliefs in Righteous Have Led to
Two ‘Mother Constitutions’ from whose mix come all
Constitutions
“Athenian: Listen to me then. There are two mother-constitutions, so to speak,
which you could fairly say have given birth to all the others. Monarchy is the
proper name for the first, and democracy for the second. The former has been
taken to extreme lengths by the Persians, the latter by my country [Athens];
virtually all others, as I said, are varieties of these two. It is absolutely vital for
a political system to combine them, if (and this is of course the point of our
advice, when we insist that no state formed without these two elements can be
constituted properly) -- if it is to enjoy freedom and friendship applied with
good judgment.” (p. 1382, 693D)
NOTE: Plato’s thought has departed from the doctrine in the Republic
regarding the fall of the Ideal State: the first degeneration is Timocracy, then
Oligarchy (plutocracy), and finally Democracy and Despotism.
Illustration of two ‘Mother Constitutions’: The Persian
Story
Under the Persian king, Cyrus Persian life was a judicious blend of liberty and
subjection. Problem was that Cyrus never considered the problem of “correct
education.” (p. 1383, 694C)
“He [Cyrus] just didn’t notice that women and eunuchs had given his sons the
education of a Mede [education of extreme luxury] and that it had been
debased by their so-called blessed status.” One son Cambyses was an
unbridled tyrant. According to Herodotus he killed his brother and sister.
Cambyses himself was then killed and his throne was seized a man posing as
his brother, most likely a magus, or a Zoroastrian priest named Gaumata.
The Persian throne was regained by Darius who was a lance-bearer for
Cambyses: “Athenian: . . . His [Darius] generosity in money and gifts rallied
all the Persians to his side, and stimulated a feeling of community and
friendship among them; consequently his armies regarded him with such
affection that they added to the territory Cyrus had bequeathed as least as
much again.” . . . “But Darius was succeeded by Xerxes, whose education had
reverted to the royal pampering of old.” (p. 1384, 695D)
Cambyses II 530 BC – 522 BC
Kills The Apis, The Sacred Bull Of The Egyptians
Illustration of two ‘Mother Constitutions’: the
Athenian Story: An Excess of Freedom
“Athenian: . . . Consequently they [musicians who performed as if there was
no right and wrong in the compassion/performance of music] they gave the
ordinary man not only a taste for breaking the laws of music but the
arrogance to set himself up as a capable judge.” . . . “But if this democracy
had been limited to gentlemen and had applied only to music, no great harm
would have been done; in the event, however, music proved to be the starting
point of everyone’s conviction that he was authority on everything, and of a
general disregard for the law. Complete license was not far behind. The
conviction that they knew made them unafraid, and assurance engendered
effrontery. You see, a reckless lack of respect for one’s betters is effrontery of a
peculiar viciousness, which springs from a freedom from inhibitions that has
gone much too far.”
Clinias: You’re absolutely right.
Athenian: This freedom will then take other forms. First people grow
unwilling to submit to authorities, then they refuse to obey the admonitions of
their fathers and mothers and elders. As they hurtle along to the end of this
primrose path, they try to escape the authority of the laws; and the very end of
the road comes when they cease to care about oaths and promises and religion
in general.” pp. 1389-90, 701A-C
Response to the Flaw in Human Nature and Problem
of Righteousness in Political Rule lies in the Blending
of Moderate Authoritarianism and Moderate Freedom.
“Athenian: . . . We reviewed a moderate
authoritarianism and a moderate freedom and saw the
result: tremendous progress in each case. But when
either the Persians or the Athenians pushed things to
extremes (of subjection in one case and its opposite in
the other), it did neither of them any good at all.” p.
1390, 701E.
A Very Short Overview of the Political State That
Plato Describes in The Laws
Plato foregoes some of the more radical ideas of the Republic:
the communism of women and children, the surrender of
private property and the rule of the philosopher-king. In the
succeeding books of The Laws, Plato proposes a state council
modeled on Pythagorean councils, who serve as the
guardians of the laws. The council watches over households
and marriages and the upkeep of a definite number of
allotments of land. Plato speculate that land is best divided up
into 5040 allotments of equivalent size. Transferrable
property up to four times on which a family can live is given
for free. But even in his last work, as suggested by the myth in
the Republic, Plato holds to the idea that ultimately the
political state is an institution for preparing the soul for its
eternal life.
slide #9, Odysseus in the cave of Polyphemus: "Odysseus in the Cave
of Polyphemus." Painting by Jacob Jordaens, first half of the 17th
century. Public
domain.http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/T/tesseract.html
slide #21, Cambyses II kills the Sacred Bull of the Egyptians:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/cambyses-kills-theapis-the-sacred-bull-of-the-egyptians-news-photo/455692687