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Summary ofthe Informal Discussion Physical-Chemical PREPARED on Factors BY PAUL K0TIN National Cancer Institute, USPHS Opening the session, DR. K0TIN remarked that those who have been working in chemical carcinogenesis are experiencing the feeling that “we'vetrod this path before― as they watch excitement grow about the viral etiology of cancer. Prior interest had been centered around the appealing form of benzene rings and double bonds as struc tural elements rather than helices, as at present. He recommended that those interested in carcinogenesis as a response to viral agents or to other chemical agents recall Dr. Francis' comment of the morning, which emphasized that in carcinogenesis we are dealing neither with mutually synthesis of what we choose to call the proximate car cinogen. The epidemiologist should treat his human population laboratory in much the same way as we do the experimental laboratory, attempting to identify specific preneoplastic sites as well as individuals at increased risk to the development of cancer because of endogenous fac tors or environmental exposure. Study of this group offers the best hope for identifying and elucidating the pathogenesis of a neoplasm prior to the appearance of the overt lesion. Further, the role of transmissible agents exclusive scribed can also be best investigated at this stage since the agent, as is well known, need not be present in the induced responses at the cellular level nor with agents which are mutually exclusive in all of their characteristics. Dr. Miller's comprehensive formal report adequately attested both to the ubiquity and the long-time environ mental presence of natural and synthetic carcinogens. It also emphasized the lack of structural uniformity among the groups of carcinogens. There is actually an absence of specific structural requirements for chemical carcinogens. Dr. Kotin again emphasized that there is an unuttered pre amble to almost all sentences describing studies on chemi cal carcinogenesis—namely, that available data have been obtained in the experimental laboratory. Evidence for the carcinogenic potential of these compounds for man is at best only inferential. The differences among species, in the carcinogenic effects of certain compounds discussed by Dr. Miller, may in part be explained by the metabolic differences among these species. Dr. Miller's presentation raises several questions: “Why and how do cells become cancerized?― Of equal moment to this meeting is the question : “Whydo people, and only certain ones at that, get cancer?― Why does the newborn show increased sensitivity to carcinogenic agents? Why do the high or low cancer rates of their native countries in the pathogenesis of any of the neoplastic lesions de neoplasm. Dr. Curtis was asked to clarify his thesis that chromo somal or genetic lesions can be self-healing whether they were inflicted by irradiation or in the course of other somatic mutations. It was further questioned how one can reconcile this theory with the idea that once chromo somal material was lost it was gone forever. On the basis of his liver studies, Dr. Curtis appeared to question the idea that the apparent progressive disappearance of ab normal karyotypes is due to a replacement by regeneration of normal cells. In reply, DR. CIJRTIS said that evidence is accumulating to indicate that if a cell is not asked to undergo division, deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) structure can apparently reconstitute itself. The exact mechanism of this, of course, is not known. Recently, Dr. Howard at Yale has actually identified the presence of certain fragments—the thymine dimers from DNA, which apparently can be broken off either by irradiation or spontaneously—and he has identi fled enzyme systems which will rebuild the chromosome if the cell does not have to undergo division. If the defec sometimes persist in migrants but frequently change in tive chromosome does not prevent cell division, the defect their children? is presumably carried on ad infinitum. The fact that Dr. Miller has offered one possible explanation involving mutations are due to molecular instability gives great enzymatic activity in relation to the metabolism of car hope for the cancer problem. As more is learned about the cinogens. Other explanations could involve immuno forces which stabilize these molecules and heal them, if logic factors or possibly viral agents. they are broken, ways will be found to increase their sta Before beginning the discussion of the papers of Drs. bility and hopefully to prevent cancer formation. Curtis, Eckardt, and Nelson, a brief summarization of In reply to the question as to how many times a cell can some of the salient facts presented appeared advisable. multiply of its own momentum, Dr. Curtis referred to First, there is a broad spectrum of chemical and physical Demerec, who reported 12 cell divisions in a biochemically agents in our environment that can induce cancer in labora deficient mutant induced by radiation in bacteria. The tory animals. Second, marked variations in species' sus mutant becomes apparent after 12 cell divisions. In hu ceptibility have been identified. Third, the metabolic man-cell tissue culture, Puck has regularly observed about alteration of environmental carcinogens either can be in 3—4cell divisions after radiation, following which the cell the direction of detoxification or may involve the in vivo may disintegrate. Dr. Curtis' work indicates that cells 1317 Downloaded from cancerres.aacrjournals.org on April 30, 2017. © 1965 American Association for Cancer Research. 1318 Cancer Research average about 4 divisions following a lethal mutation fore they are eliminated from the cell population. be Dit. LILIENFELD inquired as to whether the mutational hypothesis, which essentially relates to the aging hypothe sis, could be applied to cancer. If so, humans with cancer would have an increased frequency of other diseases asso ciated with aging, but so far as is known, they do not. For example, according to Dr. Curtis' reasoning, one would cx pect more coronary disease among breast cancer patients than among a control group. Dr. Lilienfeld doubted that this was true, though it must be admitted there have not been many systematic observations. Du. CURTIS replied that such associations do occur in animals. For example, if rats are subjected to a low tem perature, so that their metabolism is increased to maintain their body temperature, they tend to have an increased rate of induction of all diseases, including cancer and heart disease. In a sense, low temperature acts in the same way that radiation does. Disagreement was expressed with Dr. Curtis' response to Dr. Lilienfeld's question, namely, specifically whether other diseases of aging are more common than usual among patients with cancer. It was suggested that this would be true if there were a generalized cytotoxin to which all cells of the organism were exposed ; however, there is no reason why any tissue other than the organ in question should be involved in an increased number of chromosomal aberrations. The relationship between cancer and other diseases was emphasized as a matter of importance. A question was directed to Mr. Haenszel—whether it was true that the survival of cancer patients is similar to that of other people of the same age and sex if deaths due to the specific cancer involved are discounted. In reply, MR. HAENSZEL noted that the survival figures of treated cancer patients, who exhibit an excessive mor tality in the years immediately after diagnosis for several cancer sites, with the notable exception of the breast, about the 6th to 7th year begin to approach general population. Most at those for the of the disadvantage in survival experience is traceable to excess mortality from the cancer that has been diagnosed. The evidence suggests that cancer patients as a group are no more liable than other persons of like age and sex in the general population to death from causes other than the cancer and its direct effects. DR. SHIMKIN remarked velopment concerning that there is an interesting 2 , 7-acetylaminofluorene de which may have epidemiologic implications. This compound pro duces glandular carcinoma in the stomach of rats when in jected i.p. or when given orally. Recent work with radio active labeling shows that the compound is deposited in the basal layer of the gastric epithelium, a circumstance which suggests that in the epidemiology of gastrointestinal cancer one should not concentrate on dietary carcinogens alone. He further noted that nothing has been said about some very important &histosoma human carcinogens haematobium, it. is associated with cancer must a carcinogen contain related to parasites. about which we only know that of the bladder in human or a cocarcinogen. beings, There is Vol.25,September1965 also a suggestion that Clonorchis sinensis infestation may have something to do with hepatomas in man. Although millions of people are exposed to these agents, studies of the organisms have received little attention in the labora tory. The question of using metabolic studies for variations in populations at increased risk in order to distinguish the susceptible from the nonsusceptible was discussed. The question pertains to the promotion of studies similar in aim to that undertaken, for example, the identification of ab sorption of cigarette smoke in terms of acetonitrile excre tion. DR. MILLER emphasized that this was a very difficult question to answer because one would have to specify the type of metabolic alteration one would look for. At pres ent investigators just do not know the crucial metabolic differences between any tumor and its tissue of origin. Recent work shows that the high aerobic glycolysis of tumors seems to be more related to their progression than to the nature of the initial step in carcinogenesis, as Warburg originally proposed. Here reference can be made to the minimal deviation hepatomas, which are respectable tumors but show no aerobic glycolysis and are similar in many other respects to normal liver. If the question refers to other metabolic changes that might be specified, one may cite the work of Dr. Weisburger and his associates on the N-hydroxylation of 2-acetylaminofluorene by human beings. The 5 patients he examined, all of whom had some form of cancer, showed quite wide variations in ability to N-hydroxylate this carcinogen. This obser vation may indicate a metabolic difference which, were these people challenged as they might be in industry by exposure to carcinogens such as $-naphthylamine, would cause them to respond differentially. At this point, Dr. Miller offered some comments con cerning the problem of endogenous carcinogens. Are there any normal metabolites that might be regarded as such? When he referred to the orthohydroxylation of aromatic amines, he mentioned one particular type of test in which some orthohydroxyamines seem to be active fol lowing the implantation of pellets in the mouse urinary bladder. In this test certain orthohydroxyamines seem to be active in producing carcinoma of the bladder in the mouse. Several other orthohydroxyamine metabolites of carcinogenic amines are not active in this test. When one tries other routes of administration with these active orthohydroxyamines, little or no activity is found. How ever, in every one of these cases the N-hydroxy metabolite is carcinogenic. Nevertheless, there is a class of ortho hydroxyamines that are normal metabolites and that appear to be carcinogenic in the bladder implantation test. Here the reference was to the metabolites of tryptophan, such as 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid and 3-hydroxykyn urenin. Recently have obtained numbers Bryan, Price, and Brown data soon to be published of animals. These data at Wisconsin concerning indicate that large by im planting 3-hydroxyanthranilic acid, 3-hydroxykynurenin, and several other normal metabolites of tryptophan in cholesterol pellets in the mouse bladder, one may obtain highly significant increases in carcinoma. The observa tions with respect to these possible endogenous carcinogens Downloaded from cancerres.aacrjournals.org on April 30, 2017. © 1965 American Association for Cancer Research. KOTIN—Summary of Discussion on Physical-Chemical Factors seem to tie iii with the earlier work of Price and Brown, who found that iii approximately half of the bladder to potential cancer vented. It is known where they lie, but they just haven't been properly studied. Today an attitude is accepted as far as chemicals are concerned : they are not wanted in the human diet. It is an accepted view of the federal government and of others that if there is a substance in our diet which produces patients tryptophan excretion they tested, metabolism of these there was an abnormality resulting various from metabolites in the increased following a loading dose of tryptophan. The goal and scope of the meeting were considered in the part of the discussion opened by Dn. LEVIN, who felt that the epidemiologists at this meeting did not rise to some of the implied challenges, perhaps because 2 different types of epidemiologic problem were being confused. There is the broad question of how one establishes in the human population a generalization previously established in an experimental situation, or at least of how one tests for it in a human population. It is this very important and by far more interesting problem that has been discussed at this meeting. But there is another part of epidemiology which must not be escaped : upon what criteria does one either accept or reject implications from the experimental laboratory as applying to human beings also? Does one demand that they be duplicated in a human population, and if not, what does one require? DR. BRESLOW commented that one of the functions of such studies, tumors same sort vestigation one large state the percentage exceeds the undoubtedly the population derived could shouldn't from be pre be allowed The question now is : “Shouldthere be the of attitude towards some of the viral agents, and what is to be done about drugs administered by medical centers?― Where should the line be drawn and what do we advise the profession to do? Isoniazid produces tumors in several species of animal. Are the epidemiologists going after all patients treated with this drug? It's really no problem to do so. This group could get extremely esoteric, but there is a practical problem before it. It is far easier to define the applied problems with which epidemiologists could be involved than it is to define more academic problems. In summarizing the session DR. K0TIN emphasized that both the organizers of the meeting and the program ill least By information cancers in an animal, committee at many to consume it. epidemiology is to provide information to public health administrators from time to time for decisions they must make with respect to potential health hazards, such as the percentage of hydrocarbons in milk. As more refined methods of analysis have become available, federal agencies have suggested that a certain amount of such hydrocarbons is permissible in milk. The difficulty is that permissible level proposed, which means that in that state no milk should be sold. What does the public health administrator for that state do? These are the kind of problems that are faced and that are going to increase in frequency with respect to other possible carcinogenic compounds. This subject was further discussed by DR. SHUBIK who observed that there is a whole series of occupational cancers which are not being studied anywhere. It is still unknown whether coal tar, which produces cancers other than skin cancer in laboratory animals, does the same in man. There is virtually no data on human exposure to catalytically cracked oils. It is known that skin cancer occurs and other cancers are being investigated, but there is no knowledge what their incidence is at present. Data pertaining to the carcinogenic effects of exposure to aromatic amines is available, but some of the best data have never been published. All the epidemiologists alive today could be extremely well employed were they to provide definitive data on present occupational exposures carcinogens. 1319 had taken a too long delayed step in the direc tion of facilitating information exchange between in vestigators from 2 so-called distantly related disciplines by enabling them to meet in a seminar-like environment.. The papers presented and the discussion that followed contributed to reducing the dimensions of the artificial barriers that exist between experimental laboratory in and epidemiologic studies in the field of neo plastic disease. Epidemiologic studies of cancer have identified numerous patterns in cancer incidence in dif ferent areas of the world. Similarities and contrasts in risk of cancer associated with geographic and other environmental factors can ultimately be explained only on a fundamental biologic basis assessing the roles of both endogenous and exogenous factors. The experimental laboratory worker recognizes that his contributions to resolving many of the problems associated with etiology, treatment, and control of cancer have pertinence to the extent that they are compatible with findings related to the pathogenesis and natural history of cancer as it is seen in man. The epidemiologist, in contrast, has been overly patient in awaiting the utilization of his observations in the design of laboratory experiments, particularly with respect to influences more subtle than such obvious ones as aromatic amines in relation to bladder cancer and cigarette smoking to lung cancer. The latter happily represent the acme in the union of laboratory and epidemiologic findings all directed to cancer control. Downloaded from cancerres.aacrjournals.org on April 30, 2017. © 1965 American Association for Cancer Research. Summary of the Informal Discussion on Physical-Chemical Factors Paul Kotin Cancer Res 1965;25:1317-1319. Updated version E-mail alerts Reprints and Subscriptions Permissions Access the most recent version of this article at: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/25/8/1317.citation Sign up to receive free email-alerts related to this article or journal. To order reprints of this article or to subscribe to the journal, contact the AACR Publications Department at [email protected]. To request permission to re-use all or part of this article, contact the AACR Publications Department at [email protected]. Downloaded from cancerres.aacrjournals.org on April 30, 2017. © 1965 American Association for Cancer Research.