Download IN TOUCH - RNIB Scotland, Dealing with hearing loss, Kitty

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IN TOUCH – RNIB Scotland, Dealing with hearing loss, Kitty McGeever
TX: 25.08.2015 2040-2100
PRESENTER: PETER WHITE
PRODUCER: CHERYL GABRIEL
White
Good Evening. Tonight: why some members of RNIB Scotland fear the loss of its identity,
and its influence. And the older blind people who are now facing age-related deafness as
well; how to cope, and where to get help later in the programme.
But first, 17 members of RNIB Scotland have written to its London headquarters, protesting
at changes in its administration which they say would weaken the influence it’s built up over
a long period of time, and could result in poorer services for visually impaired people in
Scotland. Under the plans, RNIB Scotland would find itself reporting not to RNIB Charity
directly as it has in the past, but to Action for Blind People, originally an independent charity
which is now a member of what's known as the RNIB Group. RNIB Scotland member Anne
Hamilton explained why they're so upset about it.
Hamilton
I am very angry considering that as a membership led organisation we were not consulted, far
less asked to vote or give our opinions on this move. I am not a commodity, I am not to be
parcelled up and handed over to another organisation that I know nothing about. I am
extremely angry about this and I’m not the only person. I’m probably one of the few that will
put their head above the parapet because people are just a wee bit worried about the services
they’re going to be getting.
White
Well at the time of that recording the group in Scotland had had no reply to its letter from
RNIB Chief Executive Lesley-Anne Alexander, from whom we'll be hearing in just a
moment. But first, to discover why this administrative change has caused such a fuss, I've
been talking to current chair of RNIB Scotland Sandra Wilson, and her immediate
predecessor, Ken Reid.
Reid
Already most of the services that blind and partially sighted people depend on being
delivered by government are already being delivered by the Scottish government, so it’s
nothing to do with Westminster whatsoever. And with the Smith Commission of last year
and the outcomes of that even more will be transferred to Scotland. So taking things away
from Scotland at this time just seems to be contrary to common sense.
White
So you mean this feels like centralisation when you would say all the trend is devolution?
Reid
Exactly.
White
Is there just a hint of nationalism in this Ken?
Reid
Not in the slightest, no. This isn’t to do with how any of us may have chosen to vote last year
in the independence referendum, this is about making sure that RNIB Scotland is established
in a fit structure to deliver the best services to blind and partially sighted people in Scotland,
given the environment in which we have to operate. We didn’t choose how the Scottish
government would be established, we didn’t choose how the people of Scotland would vote
in the General Election but we have to live with that and we have to make sure how we work
recognises that and is best fitted to do so.
White
But of course the RNIB does have the job of trying to make the absolute most of the
resources it’s got and presumably what’s being thought is that it makes more sense to have a
lot of these services under one umbrella?
Reid
There is an element to which that could be the perception but what it does also do is put at
risk some of those resources because there will be those who might have considered that they
would like to contribute towards the resources of RNIB because they saw it being utilised in a
good way by RNIB Scotland who would fear that it would disappear into UK coffers and do
no benefit to people in Scotland or indeed to blind and partially sighted people in whatever
part of the UK they may happen to be based in.
White
But will this really make a difference to the services that people in Scotland get or is it more
about politics?
Reid
It’s both. There’s definitely a political element to it but politics are very, very important. In
order that we should be able to provide the services that blind and partially sighted people
need then we need to be able to negotiate at a political level. And all of these decisions are
made at Holyrood not at the parliament at Westminster. So RNIB Scotland needs to be fit to
make those political movements.
White
So you mean you have a relationship with the Scottish Parliament that might be lost or
weakened?
Reid
Exactly, yes.
White
Let me bring in Sandra Wilson, who is the current chair. You have to deal with this situation,
what are you going to do?
Wilson
Members are actually asking for a meeting and we have now managed to arrange a meeting
for the 21st September. But this date is three weeks after the TUPE transfer is due to take
place. TUPE is transferring staff from one organisation to another in a seamless transfer as it
can possibly be. So what we’re doing at the moment is going back to RNIB and asking them
to defer the TUPE…
White
So the meeting that you’ve arranged is after that would happen, so you’re…
Wilson
After that would happen yes.
White
… you’re afraid this might be a done deal?
Wilson
Yes and also that it will impact on how members react because they could still feel they’re
not being consulted.
White
On this issue of consultation there has been a letter, hasn’t there, from your organisation, can
you just explain about that?
Wilson
Seventeen members put their names to a letter that was sent to the chief executives of RNIB
Group, RNIB Charity and Action for Blind People. They’ve had no response to that letter
and they’re feeling very annoyed about that and that their feelings have been ignored.
White
Sandra Wilson and before that Ken Reid.
Well listening to that is the RNIB Group’s Chief Executive Lesley-Anne Alexander. So
Lesley-Anne can we deal with this letter? Why haven’t they had a reply to their letter or they
certainly hadn’t when we talked to them yesterday?
Alexander
Yeah I’m really, really sorry that we didn’t reply to the letter, it was purely an error on my
part. The letter called for us to make sure that the boards of both Action and RNIB were
aware of the concerns of the 17 signatories to the letter and we certainly did that, so we did
what we were asked to do in the letter but I just didn’t close the loop by formally responding.
White
Okay, so why are you making this change?
Alexander
RNIB Group is quite a big and complicated organisation and what we need to do is make sure
that our organisation is as simple for people to navigate their way around as possible. Over
the last two years we have informally had the Chief Executive of Action for Blind People,
which is now Miriam Martin, managing all four of our country delivery activities. So our
directors in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and also all of our efforts in England. And
what we’ve proved to ourselves over the last couple of years is that by making sure that the
efforts in the four countries share knowledge, that we share our learning, what we’ve proved
to ourself is that we’re able to deliver more consistently high quality services by ensuring that
we’re a learning organisation.
White
But what came over so strongly in those interviews that they say over the time they’ve built
up a really strong relationship with all kinds of organisations and individuals within Scotland,
especially the Scottish Parliament and they are fearful that this will weaken those
relationships and their ability to campaign, which they think they’ve done very well.
Alexander
And what I was going to go on to say Peter was that those relationships have been further
enhanced over the last two years where we’ve actually had RNIB Scotland being managed by
the Chief Executive of Action for Blind People. So what we’re doing now is formalising
that. What we’ve proved to ourselves is that by bringing together the management of our
four countries we do not diminish the impact and the ability of the four countries to maintain
their separate identities and to build and enhance those relationships.
White
But at this time politically isn’t this just insensitive, it’s centralisation rather than devolution,
which is the absolute reverse of what’s happening in so many other spheres, including
government?
Alexander
Peter, it’s not centralisation at all. I’m really proud of the way that RNIB embraced the
whole devolution agenda, way before my time in the early 2000s. What we’re doing is
continuing to enhance what we do in the countries by being a learning organisation, so we
bring our own experience to bear, but also making sure that the services that we deliver are
tailored to the political and social and economic environments that we have across what is
now a very complicated political structure within the UK.
White
But they do feel they’re losing their identity. Anne Hamilton put it much more directly and
personally perhaps, she said: “I’m not a commodity”, the clear implication that you’re riding
roughshod over their views and your not replying to that letter didn’t help with that
impression did it?
Alexander
Well of course it didn’t help and I’ve apologised for not reply to the letter. We have now
responded. But we’ve had a huge number of responses to the consultation that’s been going
on not only from blind and partially sighted people across the UK but also our funders and
also our staff. And I can only apologise that a letter fell through the net but we need to move
on from that. RNIB Scotland will not be losing its identity, it would be very foolish to
interfere with the RNIB Scotland brand. Our relationships with the Scottish Parliament, with
Holyrood, will not be diminished in any way, I hope they’ll be strengthened from this. What
we’re missing are the advantages of formalising our current management arrangement in that
we’re taking this opportunity to have a real look at how influential the RNIB Scotland
committee is. Now our leading members in Scotland, who form the committee, have said to
us that they would like more teeth, that they would like more power and so hand in hand with
reorganising our management we are also starting, from the 1st September, a consultation
with our leading members about what more teeth would they like, what more power would
they like their RNIB Scotland committee to have. So I think we’re going to come out of this
with a stronger organisation in Scotland, the RNIB Scotland organisation, and I do need to
emphasise that services will not be in any way diminished.
White
Just one more quick question: This meeting that Sandra Wilson referred to that’s taking
place three weeks after the handover, ‘tis a done deal isn’t it?
Alexander
The RNIB Group board, of which Sandra is a part, have made a decision that we will be
moving forward with the current proposals from 1st September…
White
So it is a done deal.
Alexander
… however, however, we will of course continue to talk to members about how we
implement those decisions. I’m very frustrated that what are actually line management
changes are somehow being used as a political football, not by RNIB members but in the
wider political arena, I’m very frustrated that blind and partially sighted people are being
used as a political football when actually what we need to get on with is supporting as many
visually impaired people as possible.
White
Lesley-Anne Alexander, CEO of the RNIB Group. We’d like your views, please.
Now, we're always very much influenced in the items we cover by what you tell us, and I was
very struck by this e-mail that reached us a few days ago. It said:
“I was wondering if you could do a piece about people who have been blind all their lives,
who are now also going deaf in old age. I have been a volunteer all my life, but can't now use
a guide dog because I’ve lost my balance. I have always been known as a coper, but this idea
is a bit daunting; in fact, it’s completely frightening.”
Well I also know from talking to blind contemporaries of mine that this is a fear, and for
some already a reality. I read this e-mail to Liz Duncan, who runs services for people who
have acquired deafness for the dual-disability organisation Sense, and I asked her for her
reaction.
Duncan
I think the first thing to say is that it’s important that people get their hearing checked and
they get the appropriate support from audiology services so that they maximise what hearing
they’ve got because most people who’ve been blind all of their lives are using their hearing,
all of their coping strategies and their day-to-day strategies rely on maximising their hearing.
So we need to try and encourage people to make best use of what’s still there, if at all
possible. And then after that contact Sense, make a call, send us an e-mail…
White
Can I stop you there because I have to be honest here, I’m in this situation a little bit, I’m
beginning to notice I’ve got a slight hearing problem in one ear and it scares me. But Sense –
it wouldn’t occur to me to go to Sense because we think of you as the deafblind charity and
that’s got a very clear profile and it doesn’t feel like my profile.
Duncan
No and I can completely understand that but the first thing to say is that Sense works with
people with a very wide range of sight and hearing loss and for us the really important thing
is the combination of sight and hearing loss. And so for somebody who’s used to using their
hearing to support their lack of vision even a tiny hearing loss can begin to impact on your
day-to-day – how you cope from day-to-day and how positive you feel about yourself, you
said yourself it’s scary and it is for most people and we recognise that and Sense is very
prepared to support people.
White
I mean one of the things that our e-mailer said was it affected balance and that’s something
I’ve noticed and the other thing I’ve noticed is I can’t always tell where a sound is coming
from because one ear is dominant now or more dominant it tends to imply that the sound …
and one of the things you do as a blind person is you relate very much with hearing, looking
in the right place, relating to other people – it’s all that sort of stuff isn’t it?
Duncan
Yeah and that’s absolutely critical and that’s why it’s important to get appropriate support
from audiology services in the first instance.
White
But the problem there is it is hard to know where to go for advice on this because ear
specialists know about ears, eye specialists know about eyes, the point this listener is making
is that it’s the way which this new disability interacts with the disability you’ve learnt how to
deal with.
Duncan
Absolutely and we always say around deafblindness that the problem – it isn’t two plus two
equals four, it’s two plus two equals 10 because the sum of the problems is so much greater
than just looking at the two sensory losses. It is difficult to get audiology services and
ophthalmology services to understand how different your life is when your hearing is affected
as well as your vision. And that’s where Sense can be very supportive, we have locally based
people who really do understand that and they will support someone to get those messages
across to other professionals.
White
Just to take an example, should you, for instance, be thinking of using a hearing aid, I mean
that might interfere with the methods you’ve used all your life to navigate?
Duncan
It may well do but using a hearing aid can help very much with the situation you described
Peter of not understanding where sound is coming from or not being able to locate sound
properly. It can also help with balance because if you’re more rooted, if your brain has more
information about where it’s getting sound from it’s easier for your brain to work out where
your feet are basically.
White
Right, so you can provide people on a local basis because I was thinking well maybe that you
need a bit more mobility training to allow for what’s going on but one knows that local
authorities are having a hard time finding mobility training for newly blind people.
Duncan
They are indeed. And we do have people based locally who can help with that and they will
work with mobility instructors and local authority staff to develop their understanding of how
the two things work together.
White
So people could just approach you as an organisation and say – I need to sit down and talk to
somebody about this?
Duncan
Very much so, that’s very much what we’re there for, yeah. And we would encourage people
to do that because it needs an individual solution, there is no one size fits all approach to this.
White
Liz Duncan. And we’d very much welcome your experiences if you’re going through this
situation.
Finally, some sad news. Visually impaired actor Kitty McGeever died last week at the age of
44. In a varied career in a challenging profession, one of the highlights was to play the first
long-running blind character in a television soap; she was the roguish Lizzie in Emmerdale.
And Kitty was rather roguish herself as I discovered in a radio portrait we made about her for
In Touch a few years ago. One of her many enthusiasms was collecting iconic clothes, and
somehow during the making of the programme, I managed to find myself burrowing around
in her wardrobe.
McGeever
I have a vast array of 1950s petticoats.
White
Oh my goodness.
McGeever
Now look at those…
White
A mass of petticoats…
McGeever
A mass yeah.
White
I can’t tell you the last time I saw petticoats like that.
McGeever
Exactly and I’ve got loads and they’re all different colours.
White
Why?
McGeever
Because I love to wear dresses and I love to wear dresses with a very full skirt and they can
turn just an ordinary kind of cotton dress with a full skirt into something that’s quite wow. I
mean these are as big as something like a flamenco….
White
They are, they’re very flouncy, aren’t they, I think that’s the word isn’t it?
McGeever
Yeah flouncy, they are but they look great.
White
I think I’d better go downstairs before we get too excited.
McGeever
Oh yeah you can have a cup of tea and calm down.
White
Yeah calm down.
Just a flavour of the warmth, and the humour of Kitty McGeever.
That's it for today. You can call our action line on 0800 044 044 for 24 hours after the
programme. You can e-mail [email protected]. And there's more on our website. From
me, Peter White, producer Cheryl Gabriel and the team, goodbye.