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Transfer Pathways Team – Economics
9/9/16
Meeting led by Anne-Marie Ryan-Guest (co-chair), David O’Hara (acting co-chair),
Brenda Flannery (TPCT Liaison)
3 sites and online – Mankato, 7700 France, St. Cloud
In attendance: Brenda Flannery (Admin.), Phil Miller (IFO), Anne Marie Ryan-Guest
(MSCF), David O’Hara (IFO), Jessie Martinez (MSCF), King Banaian (Admin.), Michael
Kirch (Admin), Steve Bolduc (IFO), Leslie Bleskachek (Admin.), Shoua Madland (MAPE),
Mark Friedman (MSCF), Denise Thompson (Admin.), Steven Davis (IFO), Cindy Houser
(MSCF), Lori Beseler (ASF). Unable to attend: Ming Lo (IFO), Patricia Hughes (IFO), Minda
Nelson (MSCSA)
Brenda thanked Bryan Hoffman and Jerry Anderson for coordinating the meeting sites.
Bryan spoke on microphone etiquette when utilizing several sites.
1. Denise Thompson volunteered to continue as note taker.
2. Competencies – micro and macro
a. Discussion/Suggestions
i. Look at previous groups – first TPT Business
ii. Question – where did Business TPT come up with their list of
competencies. Brenda said brainstorming from what 2 years have
already and then filling in with university’s needs. Brenda
suggested to start with what you need. Business management
began with big picture first for the 60 credits and them moved to
competencies next. 60 credit pathways – core economics plus
common curriculum. Asked 4 years what you want transfer
students to know.
iii. Anne-Marie said that they only teach macro and micro currently.
Other two years agreed. North Hennepin created one 2-year
degree with micro, macro, college algebra and calculus. As far as
we know, North Hennepin is the only 2-year with a major.
iv. Anne-Marie said let’s start with competencies. Stating that 75% of
coverage of competencies in a course. Michael is waiting for an
email back from MnSCU clarifying this. Brenda said it is an
equivalency guide in DARS. Try not to parse out individual courses,
meant to be an entire pathway that moves forward. Anne-Marie
suggested we put some of the competencies in micro and macro
and instructors would cover it in one of the other. Only concern
would be if taken at different institutions. Concerned about
coming in without competencies when instructors have option to
complete competencies in either or course. It was suggested we
encourage students to take both courses at one institution.
v. King suggested the TUCE economics examiners manuals lists
standards. It lists competencies for micro and macro, we could use
this as a start (bottom of page 4 and page 5). It may require some
word-smithing and checking that we use appropriate verbage
from Bloom’s taxonomy.
Micro (Competencies with suggested revisions listed below in red)
a.
b.
c.
d.
e.
f.
Students will be able to explain basic Economic problems.
Students will be able to explain markets and price determination
Students will be able to apply theories of the firm
Students will be able to explain factor markets
Students will be able to explain the microeconomic role of government in
a market economy
Students will be able to explain elements of International Economics
Keep everything that is in parentheses – yes.
Anything to add? None mentioned.
Opportunities to revise as needed.
Jessie asked about sequence. Several replied they do not use an order.
Microeconomics
A. Students will be able to explain the basic economic problem (scarcity,
opportunity cost, choice)
B. Students will be able to explain markets and price determination (determinants
of supply and demand, utility, elasticity, price ceilings and floors)
C. Students will be able to apply theories of the firm (revenues, costs, marginal
analysis, market structures)
D. Students will be able to explain factor markets (revenues, costs, marginal
analysis, market structures)
E. Students will be able to explain the role of government in a market economy
(public goods, maintaining competition, externalities, taxation, income
redistribution, public choice)
F. Students will be able to explain elements of International Economics
(comparative advantage, trade barriers, exchange rates)
Micro (Competencies with suggested revisions listed below in red)
Should we add a&b from micro to macro.
In “B” Strike utility and elasticity in Macro. Price ceilings and price floors – keep or
delete? Keep
a. From micro - Students will be able to explain basic Economic problems.
b. From micro - Students will be able to explain markets and price
determination
c. Students will be able to explain the measurement of aggregate
economic performance (… add at end – and limitations)
d. Students will be able to apply the model of aggregate supply and
aggregate demand. (pull income and expenditure of approaches to
GDP and move to C –former a)
e. Students will be able to explain money and financial markets. (financial
instruments – added)
f. Students will be able to explain monetary and fiscal policies (add public
debt)
g. Students will be able to explain policy debates
h. Students will be able to explain elements of international economics
Macroeconomics
A. Students will be able to explain the basic economic problem (scarcity,
opportunity cost, choice)
B. Students will be able to explain markets and price determination (determinants
of supply and demand, price ceilings and floors)
C. Students will be able to explain measurements of aggregate economic
performance (GDP and its components, real vs. nominal values, unemployment,
inflation, income and expenditure approaches to GDP and limitations)
D. Students will be able to apply the model of aggregate supply and aggregate
demand. (potential GDP, economic growth and productivity, determinants and
components of AS and AD, , the multiplier effect)
E. Students will be able to explain money and financial markets (money, money
creation, financial institutions, financial instruments)
F. Students will be able to explain monetary and fiscal policies (tools of monetary
policy, automatic and discretionary fiscal policies, public debt)
G. Students will be able to explain policy debates (policy lags and limitations, rules
vs. discretion, long run vs. short run, expectations, sources of macroeconomic
instability)
H. Students will be able to explain elements of International Economics (balance of
payments, exchange rate systems, open-economy macro)
Brenda – pointed out another resource - National Standards MCL lists competencies.
3. AAP or an ASP discussion – no decisions made - pg. 21 in original toolkit.
a. AAP is all 10 goal areas and 40 credits. ASP is 30 credits and only 6 goal
areas. Some thought AAP has maximum flexibility.
b. Are students well served if they follow the business pathway? Some agree.
Is a different math required? Metro requires calculus. Diversity across
system 4-years on BA or BS and on math requirements. North Hennepin
included calculus. Moorhead requires calculus to graduate. MSU –
college algebra pre-req. for business statistics. College algebra.
Suggested economics pathway have college algebra and statistics. St.
Cloud BA and BS, Moorhead is BA, MSU BA and BS and Metro BS. Ming has
a worksheet that shows mix of BA/BS.
c. Minimum of 9 credits in major for pathways. Some 2-year institutions have
statistics in math stats and business & econ department. Business
pathway lists statistics or business statistics. Do we want only business
stats? It is not good for 2-year to have to create a class for a few students.
d. Pursue an exception to 9 credit minimum for major?
e. What do institutions offer? Some 2-years offer just micro and macro.
f. Does an AA will serve economic majors at 4 year better? If they want to
switch majors, they do not lose credits.
g. Several 4-years said they mostly enroll business majors in courses, with less
actual econ majors. Feel they are discovery majors.
h. Brenda said research shows the more aligned with the program the more
likely students are to complete. Thinks some guidance is good. AA more
choices because of G. Ed, AS gives more guidance.
i. Steve says enrollment in upper level courses has been declining and
doesn’t think someone with AA can complete in 2 years, because of
course offerings. David says he focuses on 60 credits and not on when
classes are offered. Steve said they can always pick up goal area
courses, but not always get the accounting class they need. David still
thinks AA is way to go.
j. Michael and Brenda discussed Psychology AS – strongly encouraged.
Michael feels the AS in Business Admin will better serve the BA in econ,
while others still feel AA better.
k. Steve Davis AS 6 goal areas – if we don’t get to choose what those are,
they will not be successful. Business TPT does give the specific goal areas.
Steve says that is what we would need to do for an AS.
l. Anne-Marie said if university only offering every other year courses, they
could do the other four goal areas while they wait for their Econ
requirements.
m. Micro, macro, algebra, calculus, business courses could be taken at four
years.
n. How many courses can you double count between major requirements
and common curriculum? Different for each institution.
o. Lori said a course can only meet two goal areas (three if it also includes
GOAL 2). The same course could then also meet the major/minor
requirement.
p. Traditional courses: Phil – bus. courses give a business minor for MSU Econ.
Moorhead BA with business focus –
q. St. Cloud and Moorhead BS pre-reqs are calculus1 and calculus2. They
would like to get departments input. Phil agreed.
r. Distinguished between BA and BS arbitrary. Metro all BS. Brenda found
online: BA – requires a core curriculum in social sciences, BS – more
vocational and sciences – more requirements within discipline.
s. MSU – BA requires a language.
t. Back to AA or AS. Mark doesn’t know if South Central offers an AS – thinks
may just be an AA. Brenda asked for input from other members? Jessie,
said students want one clear path. – as simple as possible. 4-years need to
determine.
u. Other discussion: when did we decide on Econ major? Do we want to be
broader? What do we really want? Do we want to protect Economics as
a Social Science – not just an adjunct to business?
v. Leslie – their faculty tend to prefer the AS – fewer general courses –
students feel more focused towards their discipline. Brenda said if
complete at 2 year, more likely to complete at 4 year degree. Mark said
he cannot offer an Economics degree. Brenda said there are going to be
curriculum changes. Keep students at center of conversation, not
individual campuses. Leslie – the TP would supersede the campus
practices – Brenda agreed. The scope of classes offered at the 2 year
institutions is limited.
w. Lightning round – 4 years list of completed courses students should transfer
i. David O’Hara, Metro – macro, micro, college algebra, stats or bus.
stats
ii. Steve, Moorhead - micro, macro, stats or bus. stats, college
algebra, financial accounting
iii. Phil, MSU – macro, micro, college algebra, stats or bus. stats (4 cr.),
possibly financial acct.
x. Start discussion at next meeting – AA or AS degree?
y. Homework
i. Talk to colleagues at your institution (pg. 21 in tool kit).
ii. Talk to colleagues about course outcomes.
iii. Check what stats credits are in your institutions.
z. Other business
i. Questions Brenda will discuss with TCPT – 9 cr. - does it need to be
Economics or could it be rubrics related.
ii. Everyone liked the telepresence sites along with the individual
connections. Plus recording.
Drt - 9/9/16