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122 Chapter 6 exclude any materials from specific contexts ahead of time, describing how his different tastes were defined by his personal history, as well as by an underlying ideology that related to all the music he played: There was a time [when] suddenly I wanted to play in a way that it sounds more abstract. It reminded [me] very much [of] electronic music. [...] I got very interested in avant-garde classical music, and so I listened to Morton Feldman, John Cage, Stockhausen and music like this. Luigi Nono. [...] This was a whole new world also opening up, and I got influenced by this in the way I was improvising. Emphasising the late-1990s divide between jazz- and Echtzeitmusik-scene-related improvisers, he went on that: There were different kinds of people, so all these things went parallel... I never gave up playing with the so-called jazz musicians, because I liked this music, and I still like it very much. And so itâs changing all the time. Sometimes Iâm more into this, sometimes Iâm more into that... itâs music thatâs very important to me. And he described how, with time, this gap had narrowed: For me, now, itâs the same thing. Because it used to be that it became very difficult for me to play whatâs called âjazzâ, and the other more abstract music, with sounds only, and no normal trumpet notes any more. They were quite separate for a while. But... for me now itâs basically the same thing, but expressed in a very different way. [...] Itâs difficult to explain, because itâs not possible to hear it immediately. But itâs a kind of structure. An intelligent way of structuring music... and a certain kind of spirit. And also, that the moment... the PraÌsenz is very important, present time is very very important. [...] Thatâs the same, in all these kinds of music.39 The biggest difference between Thieke and DoÌrner, however, was that while Thieke (like Beins) consciously divided up his projects (almost always excluding certain materials and approaches according to the context of each group), DoÌrner also had groups where all of his voices and materials were allowed to exist side-by-side, and could be moved between freely (Hook Line and Sinker, Mrs. Conception). This âall-overâ form of Improvised Music (incorporating many sub-styles, and various voices and musical materials) linked DoÌrner to the third, and final, category of this 39 DoÌrner, referring to composer Bernd Alois Zimmermannâs concept, Die Kugelgestalt der Zeit, explains that, âPraÌsenz could mean that time is changing in a way which the future and past and present time become a certain kind of unit [that] you can move in.â Further explanation of this concept is given on p. 188.