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Havering Inter-Faith Forum Discussion Meeting
Thursday 4 February 2016
8.00 p.m.
Panellists from different religions discuss:
‘Significant Women in my Religion’
Venue: The Havering Islamic Cultural Centre
91 Waterloo Road, Romford, RM7 0AA
All Welcome
No Charge
Hosted by Havering Inter-Faith Forum.
For More Information: Tel. 01708 446297 or email [email protected]
Alex Perry speaking for Christianity began the meeting by talking about Sarah, wife of
Abraham, who trusted that, although she was old, God would give her a child. Her prayers
were answered and she became the mother of Israel. Less well known is Rahab, who
doesn’t appear special at first, since she was a prostitute in Jericho when it was besieged
by Joshua. She aided Joshua’s spies and was saved, becoming part of Israel and the
genealogy of Jesus.
The Four Gospels in the New Testament are thought to have been written for different
audiences. In Luke, Elizabeth, also ‘well stricken in years’ is married to a priest called
Zachariah and becomes mother of John the Baptist, recognising that he will go before the
Lord in the spirit of Elijah. Elizabeth recognised Mary as the Christ bearer and was faithful
to God.
Mary herself lived in Nazareth and was due to marry Joseph when the Angel Gabriel
appeared to her. She was brave in accepting her precious role and Joseph accepted and
believed. Mary suffered the torment of watching the crucifixion.
There was also Anna who was faithful, seven years married before widowhood and at the
age of 84 saw Jesus and recognised Him as the Messiah. Mary Magdalen who, with
Mary, brought spices to the tomb and found Christ gone and risen. So women were very
important both at the start and the end of Christ’s life.
For Islam Sidra Naeem showed four birds flying, representing the four women she was to
speak about. The first of these was Ayesha, wife of Pharoah, who looked after the infant
Moses after he had been hidden in the bull-rushes by his Hebrew Mother because of
Pharoah’s decree that the first born of the Jews should be killed. Ayesha believed in one
God and followed Moses.
The second was Mary – named after the sister of Moses – about whom is devoted a whole
Sura in the Qur’an. Hannah, the wife of Imran, prayed for a child and Mary was born.
She was taken to the temple despite opposition. Zachariah said he would look after her,
took her to the temple and made her a small room. She was visited by an Angel who said
God says Be – and it is. When she had the baby she was ridiculed but then the Baby
spoke.
Khadijah was the wife of Muhammad. She was of the Qureish tribe and had been
widowed twice, inheriting a trading business from her second husband. She needed a
trusted man to help her and chose Muhammad, becoming the first wife of the Prophet,
who didn’t marry again until after her death and had children (6) only by her. She was the
first to accept Islam and was very poor at the end.
The youngest daughter was Fatima, who was married to Ali and had two sons and two
daughters. Muhammad was very fond of Fatima and said that in death she would be the
leader of women in Heaven.
John Lester, speaking for the Baha’i Faith began with Tahirih, who was one of eighteen
‘Letters of the living’ to recognise the Bab, the herald of ‘One Whom God Shall Make
Manifest’ – Baha’u’llah. Unlike the other early believers, she never actually met the Bab,
having dreamt of Him reciting verses which she actually read the following day. She
quickly incurred the opposition of her father, her brother and her husband, who divorced
her, and various religious leaders who, in Karbila, were especially shocked when she
celebrated the birthday of the Bab in gay clothes during the period of mourning for the
martyred Imam Husayn. Despite opposition she continued to teach but had to evade close
surveillance to go to a conference of the Bab’s followers in Badasht in 1848. There she
caused consternation by appearing without her veil to signify that this was a new day and
her action was later approved by the Bab. Eventually she was sentence to death and
strangled, her final words being ‘You can kill me as soon as you like, but you cannot stop
the emancipation of women.’
The second significant woman was Jinab-i-Maryam who, when Baha’u’llah was released
from the Siyah Chal dungeon in Tehran with his home destroyed by mobs and his male
relations frightened to be associated with Him, offered Him the hospitality of her home so
He could recuperate before embarking on His exile to Baghdad. She remained a devoted
believer till her death in 1867.
Baha’u’llah’s daughter, Bahiyyih Khanum – ‘The Greatest Holy Leaf’ – suffered all the
deprivations of the exiles of Baha’u’llah and His imprisonment in Akka. Subsequently she
had especial responsibility, having to deputise for the leader of the Faith on two occasions.
The first of these came in 191-13 when ‘Abdu’l-Baha, the eldest son of Baha’u’llah and
named successor, went to Europe and across America spreading the news of the Baha’i
Faith and leaving His sister behind to look after affairs in the Holy Land during His
absence. The second came after ‘Abdu’l-Baha’s passing in 1921 when Shoghi Effendi,
His eldest grandson, then just 24, needed to withdraw to the mountains of Switzerland to
come to terms with the role of Guardian of the Baha’i Faith that he had been given in
‘Abdu’l-Baha’s Will and Testament. On three occasions between 1921 and 1924 the
Greatest Holy Leaf was effectively in charge of the Faith during Shoghi Effendi’s
absences.
The final significant woman was an American, Martha Root, who devoted the last twenty
years of her life to travelling the world teaching the Baha’i Faith to high and low alike, most
significantly to Queen Marie of Rumania, whose writings show her deep attraction to the
Faith. The highest station a Baha’i could reach was that of Hand of the Cause of God and
Shoghi Effendi named Martha Root as the foremost Hand.
Lakhvir Singh Bhui for the Sikhs pointed out that from woman man is born and that
women are the backbone of Sikh history. Men and women were two sides of the same
coin and share their lives. The elder sister of Guru Nanak had a very important role in
Sikh history and was the first believer. Bebe Nanaki (1464-1518) was born near Lahore
and named by her grandparents. She was sweet tongued and popular and Guru Nanak
was named after her. She was overjoyed at the arrival of a brother and babysat him and
looked after him. She stood between Guru Nanak and his parents and was the first to
recognise her brother as a Guru. At eleven she was married to Bhai Jai Ram but she and
Nanak missed each other and when she asked her husband to find a job for Nanak, he
did. In 1487 Guru Nanak married Mata Sulakhai. Sister and sister-in-law enjoyed a good
relationship. She expressed her devotion to God in musical terms, knowing that Guru
Nanak was good at music. When Guru Nanak was on a mission, she helped look after his
wife and parents. A tree planted there still gives shade and a well she had constructed still
gives water.
Thursday 12 May 2016
8.00 p.m.
Panellists from different religions discuss:
‘How and When Do We Pray?’
Venue: The Havering Islamic Cultural Centre
91 Waterloo Road, Romford, RM7 0AA
This proved to be another successful meeting.
Dave Chuck from the Salvation Army for Christianity began by describing prayer as a
child talking to his father. Our Father wants to hear us talk to him – the primary way to
communicate. The practice of being in the presence of God does away with pride. We
need to do away with things that keep us from God. Too often we ignore prayers, which
can be audible or silent, private or with others. Seeking God’s favour is drawing near to
God. We can pray about everything without ceasing; pray for guidance and wisdom and
fellowship with God. ‘Thy Will be done’ in accordance with what the Bible shows us. We
cry out to God; we pray to invite the Father into our presence, working together with him.
Why pray? It’s like breathing. Jesus prayed. We pray to obtain solutions. The position is
not prescribed. We should pray without being anxious. The Lord’s Prayer gives us the
divine example of prayer. Selfish desires stand us apart from our Father’s response. All
prayers are answered but not always as we would expect. God knows all about us before
we ask. As for speaking in tongues there is nothing for or against it.
For Islam Sidra Naeem said that everything was created for a purpose and man was
created by God to worship Him. Truly in remembrance of God do hearts find rest. There
are five pillars of Islam – obligatory things to do, the first of which is belief, the second
prayer. Before Islam people in Arabia had forgotten God and were not praying so prayer
was prescribed for five times a day (dawn – midday – mid-afternoon – after sunset – night)
so that people can remember God throughout the day. The Call to Prayer gives the timing
and mosques have a dome so that the words echo around the whole mosque. It begins
with the reminder of the first pillar of Islam – ‘I testify that there is no God but God;
Muhammad is the Messenger of God.’ There are ablutions before prayer so one is
cleansed during it and one should dress modestly and cover the head. Muslims pray on
the floor because this is the most humble position before God. The prayer mat came later,
invented in Turkey. Muslims face towards Mecca and pray direct to God. Verses of the
Qur’an are used to keep the poetry and eloquence of the language.
At about this time sunset occurred and the meeting adjourned while the appropriate
prayers were offered in the prayer area upstairs. It served as an excellent illustration to
Sidra’s talk.
The positions for prayer had various benefits both physically and mentally and prostration
– the most humble position – makes one calm. There is less marked depression in those
who pray five times a day. Prayer is the best treatment for all social, spiritual, physical and
moral diseases. To be taken five times a day. The gatherings in the mosque are at Eid
and on Fridays, the day of congregation which may also include a sermon.
John Lester for The Baha’i Faith spoke of prayer being ‘conversation with God’ and being
obligatory. Baha’is had a choice of which of three obligatory prayers they should say: a
short one to be said between midday and sunset, standing and facing Akka, the restingplace of Baha’u’llah; a medium prayer to be said in the morning, afternoon and evening
with certain ablutions during the prayer (they precede the short and long obligatory
prayers) and a long one to be said once at any time of the day or night. Various positions
are prescribed in the medium and long obligatory prayers – otherwise there are no
specified positions. The phrase ‘Allah-u-Abha’ (God is all-glorious) is to be said 95 times
whilst sitting down, again preceded by ablutions. There are prayers for all occasions
(healing, marriage, the Fast, guidance, teaching, expectant mothers and the unborn child,
youth – even for those who persecute us) but the only congregational prayer is that for the
dead. The prayers used are those revealed by the Bab, prophet-herald of Baha’u’llah,
Baha’u’llah, Founder of the Baha’i Faith, and ‘Abdu’l-Baha, eldest son of Baha’u’llah and
the Centre of His Covenant. One of the most popular prayers is ‘The Remover of
Difficulties’ revealed by The Bab, which is very short and can be said a multiple of times.
Prayers are always answered but not necessarily as we feel they should be. Our lives
should be like a beautiful prayer and our work, if performed in the spirit of service to
humanity, is equivalent to praying in the highest temple.
Wednesday 14 September 2016
8.00 p.m.
Panellists from different religions discuss:
‘How did My Faith Come to England? ’
Venue: The Havering Islamic Cultural Centre
91 Waterloo Road, Romford, RM7 0AA
John Lester began, explaining how the Baha’i Faith came. In 1898 an American lady
called Mary Thornburgh-Cropper received a letter from a friend in America (Phoebe
Hearst) giving news of a wonderful new religious teaching. Mrs Cropper investigated and
when Mrs Hearst came to Britain en route to Akka (then Palestine) to see ‘Abdu’l-Baha,
eldest son of Baha’u’llah, the Founder, and the appointed interpreter and exemplar of His
teachings, Mary went with her. Mary Thornburgh-Cropper became the first Baha’i in Britain
and her friend Ethel Rosenberg, became a Baha’i early in 1899. Ethel Rosenberg was
born in Bath and was thus the first English-born Baha’i and she too went to visit ‘Abdu’lBaha in Akka. Another American Baha’i, May Bolles, was sent by ‘Abdu’l-Baha to Paris
and asked to stay there. She met an Englishman called Thomas Breakwell and once she
had done this was told by ‘Abdu’l-Baha that she could now leave Paris. Breakwell became
a Baha’i in 1901 but died of TB the following year. Lady Blomfield was the first Irish born
Baha’i in 1907 and when ‘Abdu’l-Baha, freed from confinement, visited England in 1911,
she hosted Him in London. Mrs June Whyte became the first Scots Baha’i, also in 1907,
but it was 1942 before a Welsh lady, Mrs Rose Jones, joined the Faith.
Before this, news of the martyrdom of the Bab, Herald of the Faith, was conveyed in a
letter from the British representative in Tehran to Lord Palmerston in 1850 and Baha’u’llah
wrote to Queen Victoria in 1868, praising her for ending the slave trade and giving the
reins of counsel to the representatives of the people. ‘Abdu’l-Baha visited here in 1911
and 1913 (and was knighted by the British Government for humanitarian acts in Palestine
during the First World War) and the Guardian of the Baha’i Faith, Shoghi Effendi (‘Abdu’lBaha’s oldest grandson) died in London in 1957 and is buried here. So there are
connections between this country and the major figures of the religion. The first world
congress of the Faith was held at the Royal Albert Hall in 1963. It isn’t known who was the
first Baha’i in Havering but there has been a Spiritual Assembly here since 1962.
Lakhvir Singh Bhui for the Sikhs said that Duleep Singh (1838-93) was the first Sikh here,
exiled from Lahore after becoming orphaned and a ruler at the age of five. He and his
entourage arrived in England in 1850. When he died there were 600,000 Sikhs in the UK.
and 8 big schools. The first Gurdwhara was in Shepherd’s Bush in 1908.
Sidra Naeem for Islam spoke of how the religion had spread from one part of Arabia in
632 to the whole of the Middle East by 661 and even to China and Spain. Traders came
west with silks and spices and there is evidence of an Anglo-Saxon king in 773 copying a
coin used in Iraq/Baghdad and of Muslim traders reaching Eastbourne in 725. More
traders came in during the contact made through the crusades in the 12 th and 13th
centuries. There are references to Islam in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales and evidence of a
John Nelson being an early convert. Elizabeth I established relationships with Turkey and
other Muslim countries as allies against Spain. For a while turbans became fashionable.
The East-India and Levant companies began and developed close contacts with Islam.
The prototype for ‘Pirates of the Caribbean’, Captain Jack Ward, joined Islam and
Shakespeare’s Othello and Merchant of Venice both have Moors (Muslims from Morocco)
as characters. The ‘Arabian Nights’ became known and by 1641 there were many
Muslims in London. In 1760 Islamic sailors were recruited by the East India Company in
Bengal. Queen Victoria had Muslim servants but these were thrown out after her death.
Mosques were built in Liverpool and Woking and Marmaduke Pickford translated the
Qur’an. Muslims aided UK in both World Wars and came to Britain as workers after 1945.
A huge flood in Pakistan also saw large numbers come to this country. The advent of Idi
Amin in Uganda saw Indian Muslims coming here and recently more from war-stricken
countries. Britain has the second largest Muslim community in the world.
Dave Chuck for Christianity that legends of early conversions here have now been
proved forgeries. Ancient Britons (Celts) were polytheistic, as were the Romans who
allowed the Celts to continue to worship their old Gods but were not tolerant of Christianity.
Christianity entered Britain in their wake and there was a Christian martyr with St Alban in
Verulamium (now St Alban’s) in 304. Once Constantine granted Christianity freedom of
worship, the religion became widespread with three British bishops attending a church
council in Arles (France) and a delegation in 353 went to the Council of Bishops in Rimini,
and had to beg for their fare home. Once the Romans had left Britain early in the 5 th
century, the country was invaded by Pagans and Germanic Polytheism replaced
Christianity which was reintroduced in about 600, though it continued to thrive in Wales
and had spread to Ireland. In Scotland a distinctive Celtic Church emerged and two
strands of Christianity (Celtic and Roman) were in competition until the synod of Whitby in
664 brought them together. The Linsfarne Gospels and the writings of the Venerable
Bede give evidence of this. Churches were almost the only forum for education and church
schools were encouraged by Alfred the Great.
Travelling monks did much to spread the Faith and the kings of Kent and Northumbria
were converted, though Edwin of Northumbria was killed in 632 and the work had to be
repeated. Sussex was the last part of England to be converted in 680 by St Wilfrid. The
Danes subsequently conquered much of England but in time they too were converted and
there was a religious revival headed by Dunstan, who was Archbishop of Canterbury and
endorsed by Edward the Confessor, who built Westminster Abbey in 1042.
In the 14th century John Wycliffe translated the Bible into English but the main changes
same under Henry VIII in the 1530s, who established the Church of England. Edward VI
continued Protestantism but died young and Mary I restored Catholicism. When she died,
the country reverted to Protestantism under Elizabeth I. James I encouraged the first
authoritative translation of the Bible. In the late 19 th century a number of other
organisations joined the existing denominations.
The chapel of Romford is first mentioned in 1177 but Romford was part of the parish of
Hornchurch until the 19th century. By the 15th century the growth of Romford led to a new
chapel, dedicated to St Edward the Confessor, on its present site in the market place. Two
more churches were built in the mid-19th century and another four by 1900. In the 20 th
century an influx of Caribbeans led to a number of revivalist churches appearing and now
there are a variety of flavours of Christianity across the borough.