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Chapter 6
exclude any materials from specific contexts ahead of time, describing how his different
tastes were defined by his personal history, as well as by an underlying ideology that
related to all the music he played:
There was a time [when] suddenly I wanted to play in a way that it sounds
more abstract. It reminded [me] very much [of] electronic music. [...] I got
very interested in avant-garde classical music, and so I listened to Morton
Feldman, John Cage, Stockhausen and music like this. Luigi Nono. [...]
This was a whole new world also opening up, and I got influenced by this in
the way I was improvising.
Emphasising the late-1990s divide between jazz- and Echtzeitmusik-scene-related
improvisers, he went on that:
There were different kinds of people, so all these things went parallel... I
never gave up playing with the so-called jazz musicians, because I liked
this music, and I still like it very much. And so it’s changing all the time.
Sometimes I’m more into this, sometimes I’m more into that... it’s music
that’s very important to me.
And he described how, with time, this gap had narrowed:
For me, now, it’s the same thing. Because it used to be that it became very
difficult for me to play what’s called ‘jazz’, and the other more abstract
music, with sounds only, and no normal trumpet notes any more. They were
quite separate for a while. But... for me now it’s basically the same thing,
but expressed in a very different way. [...]
It’s difficult to explain, because it’s not possible to hear it immediately. But
it’s a kind of structure. An intelligent way of structuring music... and a
certain kind of spirit. And also, that the moment... the Präsenz is very
important, present time is very very important. [...] That’s the same, in all
these kinds of music.39
The biggest difference between Thieke and Dörner, however, was that while Thieke (like
Beins) consciously divided up his projects (almost always excluding certain materials
and approaches according to the context of each group), Dörner also had groups where
all of his voices and materials were allowed to exist side-by-side, and could be moved
between freely (Hook Line and Sinker, Mrs. Conception).
This ‘all-over’ form of Improvised Music (incorporating many sub-styles, and various
voices and musical materials) linked Dörner to the third, and final, category of this
Dörner, referring to composer Bernd Alois Zimmermann’s concept, Die Kugelgestalt der Zeit,
explains that, “Präsenz could mean that time is changing in a way which the future and past and
present time become a certain kind of unit [that] you can move in.” Further explanation of this concept
is given on p. 188.
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